Taxi Driver Online

Small PSVs, those with more than 8 passenger seats come under the Traffic Commissioner and PSV licencing regs, except those on s19 permits who are outside anyone's control.

PSVs can ply for hire wherever and whenever they want providing they display a valid PSV operators disc. But of course they must comply with PSV licencing regs, drivers hours, use a tacho, etc. Quite a number of restricted PSV licences are out there, usually used by taxi firms when they have a 12 seater amongst a fleet of ph or hc cars. They tend to flout the PSV laws and are regular visitors to the local TC's Public Inquiry system, usually for hours problems. They tend to leave such meetings minus their restricted licences.

What about those small PSVs with less than 9 passenger seats?

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IDFIMH

Any vehicle with 8 or less passenger seats comes under the L/A licensing regime.

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IDFIMH

not strictly correct

a PSV company with spare slots on an O licence can, i believe, operate cars and/or upto any size?

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most

Are you sure that that revision is up to date? It is not easy to operate legally with under 8 passengers without making a profit because seperate fares must be charged and all seats must be available to the public.

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Grandad,

It's the latest one taken off the DfT website.

The pros and cons of operating small PSVs is one thing we can come back to another time, but the theme of the thread is that these cars do come under VOSA, even those that seat 8 or less punters.

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IDFIMH

But VOSA no longer exist.

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Grandad,

Insert DVSA for VOSA.

Vehicles with less than 8 passenger seats come under local authorities, vehicles with over 8 passenger seats come under the DVSA PSV licencing.

A licenced PSV operator can operate up to 10% of his fleet as under 9 passenger seats on a PSV O licence. However, the operator must notify the Traffic Commissioner of all vehicles operated on an O licence.

With regard to how things are paid, forget the "not for profit/for profit/hire and reward terms. Case law from the European Court says "fiscal activity regardless of the status of the operator". A fact of the law UK government has chosen to ignore for many years. DVSA Guidance has been errant since it was written about 20 years ago an still the government chooses not to take action. That is why Martin Allen is now having a Judicial Review on the whole matter.

Is it only me that sees the contradiction in the above statements?

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IDFIMH

slots and seats...

wouldnt they just use 12/17 seater minibuses?

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most

I don't see a contradiction. What Roy is saying seems to be that an operator who runs big busses on an "O" licence can run a vehicle with 8 or less seats under that "O" license. Community transport groups do not run under an "O" license they run under either a section 19 or section 22 permit to which the same exemption does not apply.

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Grandad,

I repeat that it was stated on this thread that the Traffic Commissioner doesn't have any say on vehicles that have less than 9 passenger seats.

I'm merely saying that as it is possible to run a PSV under 9 seats, then the Traffic Commissioner must govern those vehicles and their activities.

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IDFIMH

The vehicles being used by community transport are not being used as PCVs. PCVs require an "O" license. community transport work with section 19 or section 22 permits and not an "O" license.

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Grandad,

The tC only has jurisdiction on vehicles with less than 8 seats operated on a PSV licence. No O licence=local authority or s19 permit or illegal operation.