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 Post subject: Naughty cabbies
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Having a conversation on bookface about the number of black cab drivers who have been convicted of rapes, murders etc compared with uber and private hire drivers in London. Does anyone have any stats on this? Maybe over the last 2-3 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Naughty cabbies
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:06 pm 
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Had a look at this a year or two ago. Black cab drivers in London generally safe as houses compared to PH, with Warboys being an obvious exception, but as a whole there's no comparison.

Uber not a whole lot different to private hire generally, but whether or not better or worse than the more traditional minicab industry, a world away from black cab drivers.

Please note though that the above only refers to London - suspect in the rest of the country not so much of a difference between HC and PH.

Also, very difficult to get concrete and comparable figures for this kind of thing, which is why I haven't quoted any, but the figures I've seen have been far enough apart to be more or less certain that there's no comparison safety-wise.

Note also that I think the main figures I saw were with regard to complaints regarding sexual crimes about drivers, not actual convictions, which I suspect are relatively rare in comparison to complaints made.

And if you're looking at things like drivers who murder, such an event is probably too unusual to draw statistical conclusions - eg if a Brum HC driver murdered a passenger that would obviously be a rare event and you couldn't conclude from that that Brum HC drivers were more dangerous than Manc HC drivers, say.


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 Post subject: Re: Naughty cabbies
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:33 am 
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A quick internet search revealed that Channel 4 has recently done an item on this. this showed something like 200-odd ph drivers accused of sex crimes/gbh, of which 50% were Uber, the rest other PH firms. Black cab drivers had a clean sheet.

Linky here:https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-are-black-cabs-safer-than-ubers


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 Post subject: Re: Naughty cabbies
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:35 am 
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roythebus wrote:
A quick internet search revealed that Channel 4 has recently done an item on this. this showed something like 200-odd ph drivers accused of sex crimes/gbh, of which 50% were Uber, the rest other PH firms. Black cab drivers had a clean sheet.

Linky here:https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-are-black-cabs-safer-than-ubers


Thanks - that's kind of consistent with the stuff I read, which think applies to a slightly earlier period:

Daily Mail wrote:
During 2015, Transport for London recorded 136 reported offences of rape and sexual assault against drivers of taxis and private hire vehicles in the capital.

Owing to various reasons, such as lack of evidence or the victim’s reluctance to prosecute, in 2015, just 28 licensed drivers ended up in court.

Of these, only eight have so far been convicted of sexual assault. None of that number was a black cab driver. How many worked for Uber is unclear — but, as we have seen, its drivers have been convicted of a number of attacks and many people believe there are plenty of reasons to be concerned about Uber’s operation.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -week.html

That doesn't split PHVs into Uber v the rest, but other figures from around the same period are maybe consistent with the above. Haven't got the full quotes to hand (think numbers from FoI request), but of *accusations* of sexual assault in *booked* London vehicles (ie excluding touts/pirates/unlicensed) the numbers were:

Uber - 27
Other PHV - 50
HCs - 2

On the other hand, last year it was reported that Uber drivers worse for driving offences than rest of PHV trade;

Quote:
Emails in today's Sunday Times show the alleged offences include causing death by dangerous driving, careless driving, drink-driving, driving without insurance and speeding. In the emails, which were written on July 7, Mr Billany raised 'concerns with Uber as an operator' 'I am seeing an increasing amount of my team’s workload relating directly to them . . . there seems to be a disconnect between them taking responsibility for their drivers, their driving standards and the condition of their vehicles.'

Out of the 128 private hire drivers reported to police in the previous four weeks, 79 were employed by Uber according to the emails, with Mr Billany saying 'many' of the alleged offences were 'relating directly to road safety'. And from May 1 to July 16, the firm's drivers were responsible for just over half of all minicab traffic offences. Last night Uber said the figures were 'proportional' to the number of its drivers, but only about 40,000 of London’s 117,000 licensed private hire drivers - 34 per cent - work for the the company.


Of course, there are a lot more Uber trips than HC trips in London, so the numbers earlier have to be adjusted to that degree, but by any measure black cabs considerably safer than Uber.

As regards Uber v other PHV, a mixed picture, but doubt if Uber substantially better or worse than the traditional minicab trade. Which, ten years ago, might have been what us anoraks could have predicted :-|


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 Post subject: Re: Naughty cabbies
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:02 pm 
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this featured on here a couple of years ago there is a thread somewhere

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 Post subject: Re: Naughty cabbies
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:17 pm 
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whats the Rotherham/Blackburn % on n0nces?

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 Post subject: Re: Naughty cabbies
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:06 am 
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Location: Southport
Why are so many Uber drivers in London accused of sexual assault, is it because they are foreign imports and aren't CRB checked the same way as someone who is born here?


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 Post subject: Re: Naughty cabbies
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:10 pm 
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Southport PH wrote:
Why are so many Uber drivers in London accused of sexual assault, is it because they are foreign imports and aren't CRB checked the same way as someone who is born here?

There are about 80,000 minicab drivers in London, so the chances they have loads of iffy drivers makes sense.

Whether it's any different, pro-rata, with any other district I'm not sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Naughty cabbies
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:22 pm 
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roythebus wrote:
A quick internet search revealed that Channel 4 has recently done an item on this. this showed something like 200-odd ph drivers accused of sex crimes/gbh, of which 50% were Uber, the rest other PH firms.

Black cab drivers had a clean sheet. 8ollocks


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 Post subject: Re: Naughty cabbies
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:34 pm 
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Southport PH wrote:
Why are so many Uber drivers in London accused of sexual assault, is it because they are foreign imports and aren't CRB checked the same way as someone who is born here?


Our LA..............


Quote:
Applicants with periods of residency outside the UK

If an applicant has spent six continuous months or more overseas since the age of ten years old the Council will need to see evidence of a criminal record check from the country / countries visited covering the period that the applicant remained overseas.

The Licensing Authority will need to be satisfied that sufficient background checks have been conducted to satisfy the fit and proper test for all applicants that have lived oversees. For EU nationals (including UK citizens) suitable checks should be available where the applicant has not been resident in the UK for at least 5 consecutive years.

For those countries for which checks are not available, the Council will require a certificate of good conduct authenticated by the relevant embassy where the applicant has not been resident in the UK for at least 5 consecutive years.

If the relevant checks cannot be supplied the Licensing Authority will not be able to grant a drivers licence.

For further information please see Appendix C.


Certificate of Good Conduct: Guidelines relating to Criminal Checks for Persons who have spent time outside of the United Kingdom

Where an applicant/driver has been absent from the UK, a Disclosure and Baring Service (DBS) check would not be sufficient evidence of his/her criminal record.

All applicants/drivers (including those renewing a licence) must complete as part of the application form a questionnaire in order to ascertain what time, if any, the applicant has spent resident outside of the UK since the age of 10.

Under s.57 Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 it is an offence to knowingly or recklessly make a false statement or to omit information required by the Licensing Authority.

Applicants/drivers who have been resident in any other country or countries for 6 months or more will be required to provide a Certificate of Good Conduct from each country (unless previously seen by this Authority). For these purposes, a “Certificate of Good Conduct” means an extract from the judicial record or equivalent document issued by a competent judicial or administrative authority in the relevant country testifying to good conduct or to any criminal convictions recorded against the individual.

The Licensing Authority may wish to approach the relevant Embassy or appropriate body directly to verify the documents provided. The applicant/driver will be advised of any costs to be incurred and these costs must be met by the applicant/driver. Consent should not be unreasonably withheld.

Where necessary documents must be translated into English or another language by a translator approved by the Licensing Authority. The cost of obtaining an appropriate translation must be met by the applicant/driver.

All applicants/drivers who have been resident in the UK will be required to obtain an enhanced DBS check for the period of time they have been resident in the UK.

Applicants/drivers who are unable to provide the necessary DBS check or Certificates of Good Conduct to the satisfaction of the Licensing Authority, may be unable to satisfy the licensing authority that they are a fit and proper person to hold a driver’s licence and the application may be refused or any existing licence may be suspended/revoked.

Any person aggrieved by a decision of the Licensing Authority has the right of appeal to a Magistrates’ Court. Such appeal must be made within 21 days of being notified of the Licensing Authority’s decision.



Operators licence

Before an application will be accepted the applicant must include the following:

A Basic DBS certificate;

A certificate of good conduct (if applicable – see Appendix B);

Proof that the applicant is legally permitted to work in the UK –a licence will not be issued for a period longer than that period the applicant is permitted to work;

The application fee;

Any other documentation required to progress your application e.g. relevant insurance documents.

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