Taxi Driver Online

My council will license anything that meets it's criteria, and the council have never refused to license a limo.

That said, no-one has ever applied.

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IDFIMH

Lovely answer for you on this one, too many and not enough.

Not enough because the vast majority are mugs who have bought into a business not having a clue about the law. So they don't feel the need to work the right and proper way.

Too many as the PSV route isn't much more than snide way to avoid the checks and balances that proper decent people don't feel the need to avoid. Ask many limo folks using, or should I say abusing, restricted PSV about seperate fares and they will not have a clue.

The fact that it's the law means nothing.

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IDFIMH

Does a limo fit in with the criteria? In your opinion. In most cases that I have been made aware of the operator has rang the council toask about licensing a limo and the council just say "we don't license limos" so an application is never actually made because the operator sees it as pointless.

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Grandad,

You are quite right thank you for reminding me, perhaps the wedding day contract wasn't for 16 people, I did get quite a few estimates back then.

Regards

JD

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I'm pleased to inform the good readers of TDO, that the Metropolitan Police's 'Tout squad' is very aware of the new legislation, and hope to see an a virtual end to unlicensed Limo's coming into London sooner than later.

They've been active with the PSV requirements for some time now, and armed with the new legislation, should hopefully be in a much better position to prosecute the clowns with their clapped out Fire Engines etc.

The low emissions zone comes into force from the 4/2/08, so any of these heaps driving in will immediately face a £200+ fine.

No, but that can be challenged, and could be successful as the 1976 act defines a PH vehicle as being;

"private hire vehicle" means a motor vehicle constructed or adapted to seat [fewer than nine passengers], other than a hackney carriage or public service vehicle [or a London cab] [or tramcar], which is provided for hire with the services of a driver for the purpose of carrying passengers;

Now even the most anti-limo mush couldn't argue that an eight or less seater limo meets that definition.

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IDFIMH

That being so, I would think LAs would have little choice than to licence them.

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

I think the problem is that section 48 reads like this;

48 Licensing of private hire vehicles

(1) Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act, a district council may on the receipt of an application from the proprietor of any vehicle for the grant in respect of such vehicle of a licence to use the vehicle as a private hire vehicle, grant in respect thereof a vehicle licence:
Provided that a district council shall not grant such a licence unless they are satisfied—
(a) that the vehicle is—
(i) suitable in type, size and design for use as a private hire vehicle;
(ii) not of such design and appearance as to lead any person to believe that the vehicle is a hackney carriage;
(iii) in a suitable mechanical condition;
(iv) safe; and
(v) comfortable;
(b) that there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle a policy of insurance or such security as complies with the requirements of [Part VI of the Road Traffic Act 1988], and shall not refuse such a licence for the purpose of limiting the number of vehicles in respect of which such licences are granted by the council.
(2) A district council may attach to the grant of a licence under this section such conditions as they may consider reasonably necessary including, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing provisions of this subsection, conditions requiring or prohibiting the display of signs on or from the vehicle to which die licence relates.
(3) In every vehicle licence granted under this section there shall be specified—
(a) the name and address of —
(i) the applicant; and
(ii) every other person who is a proprietor of the private hire vehicle in respect of which the licence is granted, or who is concerned, either solely or in partnership with any other person, in the keeping, employing or letting on hire of the private hire vehicle;
(b) the number of the licence which shall correspond with the number to be painted or marked on the plate or disc to be exhibited on the private hire vehicle in accordance with subsection (6) of this section;
(c) the conditions attached to the grant of the licence; and
(d) such other particulars as the district council consider reasonably necessary.
(4) Every licence granted under this section shall —
(a) be signed by an authorised officer of the council which granted it;
(b) relate to not more than one private hire vehicle; and
(c) remain in force for such period not being longer than one year as the district council may specify in the licence.
(5) Where a district council grant under this section a vehicle licence in respect of a private hire vehicle they shall issue a plate or disc identifying that vehicle as a private hire vehicle in respect of which a vehicle licence has been granted.
(6)
(a) Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act, no person shall use or
permit to be used in a controlled district as a private hire vehicle a vehicle in respect of which a licence has been granted under this section unless the plate or disc issued in accordance with subsection
(5) of this section is exhibited on the vehicle in such manner as the district council shall prescribe by condition attached to the grant of the licence.
(b) If any person without reasonable excuse contravenes the provisions of this subsection he shall be guilty of an offence.
(7) Any person aggrieved by the refusal of a district council to grant a vehicle licence under this section or by any conditions specified in such a licence, may appeal to a magistrates' court.

In other words they can please their selves as long as a court deems them to be acting 'fairly and reasonably'.

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IDFIMH

The bit that usually means a council won't license is that many won't allow left hand drive vehicles to be licensed.
Although any desision not to license a particular vehicle can be challenged the problem lies in the fact that as soon as someone says it is a left hand drive vehicle the council response is we don't license left hookers so the application form is never actually sent out.

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Grandad,

There is one case on record where a left hand drive legal challenge was successful but its up to the magistrate.

Regards

JD

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I think there has been several cases where an appeal has been won. The problem for the limo operator is actually getting the refusal in writing so that they can go to appeal. I have tried to advise operators to get an operators license before even mentioning what vehicle they intend to run but they think it is a lot of money to invest if they arn't going to be able to then license their limo. Another reason given for not licensing limos is that the approved testing garages don't have the facilities to test stretched limousines but this has been overcome in the Nottingham area and the councils from Rushcliffe, Gedling and Melton Mowbray all send theirs to the Nottingham city council testing facility.

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Grandad,

So does that mean that the council considers limos to not require regulation, or does it mean that it considers that their operation would be illegal?

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

The fact that no operator has ever been prosecuted by a council that doesn't license limousines may be coincidental. Many councils have told operators that because they don't license limousines they can't then prosecute them for not having a license. So whose is at fault. My own council were of the opinion "we would rather have you in the system than not"
When it comes to enforcement, I don't think our council is very good though because about 5 years ago another chap in my town bought himself 2 really old limos and when the council "invited" him to license, he just told them he only did weddings and they accepted this. They never checked if it were true. It took over 1 year for them to write to him again saying they had recieved a complaint after a prom but they never prosecuted him. He moved his business to leicester but eventually he sold up.

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Grandad,

No one who carries passengers for hire or reward without a license is exempt from prosecution. Limos have no exemption under the law either before or after the 28th January.

Regards

JD

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But none were prosecuted. Why?

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Grandad,