Taxi Driver Online

Like the man in the orthopaedic shoe... I stand corrected. The drivers plates are to be precise £160/£110 = 1.45 times more expensive and the badges are £150/£57.60 = 2.6 times more expensive. But why? Why should a Liverpool driver have to pay 2.6 times more for his badge in Liverpool than Sefton?

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Don't knock it, 'til you try it....

Perhaps I am mistaken, but let's throw down the gauntlet to find out. Sefton charges less than £20 a year for a private hire driver's licence, they're open 8am-6pm five days a week and they have two separate premises to choose from. If anyone can beat that I'll put my orthopaedic shoe back on again.

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Don't knock it, 'til you try it....

Far from it... they underline it all the more...

FACTOR 1 - Economy of scale. This should dictate that the more licences you issue then the cheaper you should be able to carry out the process. Liverpool currently holds 4096 badges and Sefton holds 3395 badges, yet Liverpool is 2.6 times more expensive. Why?

FACTOR 2 - Premises. Liverpool licensing is only available from one individual building with no free parking nearby, Sefton makes its licensing available from two separate buildings, with free parking just a couple of minutes walk from the Bootle site. So Liverpool drivers have half the choice for where to go but pay 2.6 times more.

FACTOR 3 - Opening hours. Sefton runs 8am-6pm, Liverpool runs 8am-5pm. Again a better deal for Sefton.

FACTOR 4 - Accessibility. Sefton offers both appointments and a drop in service. Liverpool sees drivers by appointment only.

Renewing a badge in Sefton is therefore cheaper, closer, with a wider time range and walk-in facilities... you're not comparing like with like, Sefton outperforms Liverpool in EVERY respect, but Liverpool charge 2.6 times the price. Why?

I'll tell you. Sefton have Taxi Licensing officers who deal with Taxi Licensing only. Liverpool have Licensing officers who deal with taxis, casinos, restaurants, pubs, clubs, bugs, dangerous animals, street traders, etc etc. How can Liverpool drivers be sure that their fees aren't being spent on kitchen inspections? Also, Sefton has a clearly defined ringfence for its taxi account. Do Liverpool? And what's being done about it? Nothing! Representatives are so busy blaming Delta for all their woes they haven't got time to deal with getting their own house in order.

So... to sum up... is there any local authorities out there delivering badges for less than £20 a year with more than one premises open 8am - 6pm for walk-in and appointments... ??? WELL???

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Don't knock it, 'til you try it....

I am beginning to find this a most enjoyable thread..... for a totally different reasons than what is visible...

ps.. Liverpool are looking for a new chief executive.... salary 200,000 .....

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

I used to find invisisble things fun too......... until they threatened me with a funny white back fastening coat. I wasn't having none that, double standards you see. It was ok if they said the buckles where there (even tho I couldn't see them) but it wasn't ok for me to say things where there that they couldn't see

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

No wonder Liverpools licensing fees are so expensive; with Sefton PHV's illegally plying there........one bloke from Leeds was recently caught touting.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Well I daresay you're right, but perhaps the point is that you made the claim but are now looking for evidence to substantiate it?

But I don't think anyone would dispute that the Sefton driver's badges are cheap.

On the other hand, what is entailed in the process? What kind of quality control do SMBC exert on drivers?

What sort of knowledge test do HC and/or PH drivers undertake, for example?

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Caledonian Cabbie

Yes, thanks for fleshing out the points you made earlier, but my point was that your document was a bit less than a full appraisal of the pros and cons, and to that extent didn't tell the whole story. And even now you're focussing on a few plus points re Sefton, but ignoring the other authorities apart from Liverpool and no doubt being selective in which factors you adduce to make your argument.

But, I suppose your document was primarly aimed at SMBC staff and councillors, and not the less credulous like people who post on here, so to that extent you hit the spot.

But ndeed, you raise some very pertinent questions about these issues, and underline the nonsensical situation where so many of your vehcles are, as I understand it, operating in another LA's boundaries?

So are the cheap licences the main factor driving this process, or are there other factors involved?

And what came first - Delta operating largely in Liverpool or the cheap licensing fees in Sefton?

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Caledonian Cabbie

Well I don't doubt that you're enjoying the thread, but perhaps the point is to keep that to yourself instead of making it public

Ie, a bit like Mr McLaughlin's letter

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Caledonian Cabbie

It is an accepted point that Delta operate in Sefton because of the ease to do so and cost rather than because they prefer to do so. If they could have same things in Liverpool that they do in Sefton they would indeed be in Liverpool. That does not prevent them from advertising and such in Liverpool. Their drivers sit in and work Sefton and all surrounding areas, they have to or they wouldn't have enough work.

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

It's a bit confusing when you say operate IN, try saying operate FROM. You see we operate IN everywhere, whereas we operate FROM Sefton. Where you operate IN is irrelevant insofar as licensing is concerned, it's where you operate FROM that counts.

Historically, Delta's first office was in Crosby so when the 1976 Local Government Miscellaneous Provisions Act was introduced, we got licensed BY Sefton, so we could operate private hire vehicles IN all our local areas. Crosby town centre was eventually threatened by the imminent expansion of Sainsbury's, so we sought a new home. After years of research and debate, Bootle was eventually selected for a variety of reasons...
1. it's a strategic investment area
2. it has excellent transport links for staff to get to and from work
3. it has lots of local amenities
4. it has fabulous views overlooking the Leeds / Liverpool canal
6. most of our employees reside within a few miles of the site
7. all our drivers and vehicles were already licensed BY Sefton
8. Sefton licensing committees have historically tended towards COMMON SENSE rather than TRADE UNION PROTECTIONISM
9. what happened to 5?
5. are there it is!

Bear in mind also that Sefton trade reps (HC and PH, Driver, Vehicle and Operator) had spent years and years working in with the council towards a better taxi licensing portfolio.

It makes no sense to run two control centres (one in Liverpool and one in Sefton). Apart from the additional overheads of running two sites, you'd have to operate two isolated fleets, and bang goes all your fleet efficiency . A call to the Liverpool office could only go to a Liverpool licensed car, even if we had a Sefton licensed car right outside the house. It doesn't matter whether it's in Liverpool, Sefton, or Berwick, just make sure there's only one large office for one large fleet and you maintain maximum efficiency.

So you see we never specifically chose Sefton. Delta began in 1968; Sefton wasn't even formed until 1974 and private hire legislation didn't emerge until 2 years after that.

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Don't knock it, 'til you try it....

Absolutely. If I say on this site that 'SEFTON OFFERS THE BEST LICENSING DEAL FOR DRIVERS', I'm expressing an opinion, not an evidential fact. Feedback from other users might or might not prove me wrong. Let's see.

The author of the document sent to Sefton Council didn't state any such opinion, they merely said WELL DONE FOR THIS MAGNIFICENT ACHIEVEMENT. I have to agree, what Sefton has done is GREAT for our drivers. Are there any other drivers out there who are happy with some of their LA's achievements, or is it all 100% negative?

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Don't knock it, 'til you try it....

Quality control is rather more subjective, and it is a factor that I would argue is perhaps more to do with WHAT THE PUBLIC GETS in terms of professionalism and safety, rather than WHAT DO DRIVERS GET for their money. However, I can tell you that both Sefton AND Liverpool have a knowledge test. Liverpool's is more difficult than Sefton's, but they both have one. Sefton also require a completed VRQ before issuing drivers with a badge and a completed NVQ within 12 months. Liverpool don't. They're the only Merseyside authority yet to adopt any nationally recognised form of training. Sefton was the first out of the two to opt for the more stringent medical, with Liverpool following suit only later on. Both do of course require enhanced CRB checks, but that of course is separate to the licence fee.

In terms of enforcement, Sefton authorises Liverpool officers to act on its behalf, and Livepool authorises Sefton officers to act on its behalf, so we have cross-border collaboration. Sefton officers mostly enforce in Sefton and Liverpool officers mostly enforce in Liverpool, but I've seen joint operations at the Mersey Tunnel entrance, and Liverpool John Lennon Airport, where officers from both local authorities work together on joint operations.

As I stated earlier, when Sefton officers are doing their Sefton enforcement, they're dealing solely with taxi issues. Liverpool officers are spread across casinos, cafes, street traders, pubs, clubs, etc etc.

There is also a disparity in 'fit and properness' of the vehicles. Sefton was asked for permission to display full livery advertisements across their vehicle. They made a sensible and balanced resolution. They didn't want to blur the distinction between hackney carriages and private hire vehicles so they said we could have a small ad on the back door so long as it wasn't advertising the taxi company itself. We asked for the back window and we were quite rightly told that such stickers alter the break-glass-characteristics of the window, so if a window was to shatter, instead of coming down on the passengers head in neat little particles, the sticker would cause the glass to come down in one dangerous clump. Sefton could therefore be responsible for damages if it approved such a thing.

Liverpool reps put in a request for full livery advertisements on their private hire vehicles too. The committee resolved to discuss it later. In the meantime Liverpool private hire companies have for the last 6 months gone ahead anyway with full livery advertisements of themselves, including stickers right across the back window. To my knowledge, not one of these vehicles has been prosecuted for breaking the rules. Whether that's down to a lack of enforcement or merely 'looking the other way' is anyone's guess, but do you think if a Delta driver showed up in Liverpool with DELTA emblazoned over the bonnet, roof and back window, he'd get away with it?

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Don't knock it, 'til you try it....

That's the only advertising our PH are allowed on the outside of the vehicle. A car wrap advertising the company it works for

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

Precisely, they are allowed, i.e. the conditions of licence in your area permit this. The conditions of licence in Liverpool do not.

I wasn't questioning the condition itself, merely the 'selectivity' of which conditions officers were choosing to enforce. Councillors are voted in to decide conditions, officers are paid licence fees to enforce these conditions. If we're talking value for money, then surely officers should enforce ALL the conditions, not just the palatable ones.

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Don't knock it, 'til you try it....