Taxi Driver Online

Can someone give me a good definition as to why Hackney cabs and private hire cars are a public service and not a private service. Or are they both a private service where one just happens to have a licence to pick up punters off the street?

When considering the case for a Hackney to be a public service vehicle how does one square the circle that once hired the public have no right of access to the vehicle. Where as a bus and train are freely available to members of the public at all times during the journey.

Best wishes

JD

Its called adequate provision to provide service John............ you don't see the train companied looking to lay tracks on our raods or the bus companies looking to make raods of our railtracks.

now come on ........... I thought I was the one coming out with stupid statements.

Thats not what I'm looking for Charlie. I specifically asked for a definition of public service with regard to Taxis. When someone hires my cab it becomes a private service as a contract between the hirer and me, the public is excluded, I only offer the service to the private person who hired me. Therefore If I am a private hire when someone pays me for taking them from A to B, I must be a private enterprise when I'm empty. Or am I?

Bestw wishes

JD

The differance isn't when your "hired" but when you are awaiting work.

Private Hire needs a "private" arrangement through an operator, whereas a Hackney Carriage can be used by any member of the "public" who approaches, or hails one in the street, without the need for an arrangement via a third party.

I believe that the two "codes" are the best way to deliver reliable transport solutions, I agree that the balance has got to be right but to get everyone working to one code will, in my opinion, be to the detriment of the public who use our service. Yet again we had a weekend where we knocked back to much work, Yet again we had a weekend where the HC working from the office deserted OUR customers to do rank work.
Next week I don't expect to be picking any of the people we knocked back up ................. I just hope the ones we actually managed to get cars to decide to use us as often.

You know all this JD .............. I just suppose with people being to busy to spend time on the site your maybe just trying to liven up the boards.

My definition of public transport is any form of transport where the service provider determines the pick up and drop off points and payment is made by way of separate fares.

If want a ride into town I can go and get the bus along with any other member of the public and pay my separate fare. If I want to go by cab I can do one of two things either phone one, or go stand in the street and hail one. However, there is no equal definition that can describe bus transport as the same as cab transport, there is however an equal definition that applies to both bus and train transport.

I know the assumption that because cabs pick up passengers off the street and at cab ranks they are deemed as public transport but in the wider definition of the word I don't think we fit into that category. Public transport means you have a right to travel as a member of the public. You don’t have the Automatic right to travel in a Taxi. That right is dependent on the driver accepting you as a fare. I know the law appertaining to standing at a cab rank so lets not go there but what if a passenger wanted to go beyond the boundary of the licensed area? You are not obliged to take him so in other words the member of the public has no right of entry into the cab.

What about Private hire vehicles, would you say they are public transport or private transport? Is there such a thing as private transport and how is it defined? Was private hire vehicles public Transport before the 1976 act and if not, What makes them public transport now, if they weren't then?

Buses and Trains never stop becoming public transport but how about a cab?

Considering a cab can't charge separate fares or pick up people along the way once hired, can it really be classed as public transport rather than private transport? The only time a cab can alter its service status is when it operates under sections 10 and 12 of the 1985 Transport act. But section 12 makes it a bus and section 10 makes it a cab that can carry persons at separate fares albeit it can't stop along the way to pick up other members of the public.

So because a Cab can pick up off the street you are saying it is a public service vehicle? A private hire vehicle who performs the same function which is conveying people from A to B albeit under different circumstances is classed as what?

I've always had a problem with the Government saying we are an integral part of the public Transport system and then conveniently passing us by when it comes to subsidy. What I want to know is where does public transport begin and where does it end? If we are public Transport then we should campaign as such and perhaps get some of the benefits other forms of public transport get.

Now can you see where I'm going? lol

Best wishes

JD

Well, thats ok for you, however it cannot be the definition, and as time goes on the passenger more and more is determining the destination, even with buses.

no public transport is that readily available to the public, so taxis yes private hire no.

The only problem with the above observation is that passengers in Taxis already always determine the destination, with a bus the passenger can't determine the destination, the destination is fixed. Even rural flexible bus services have to submit a basic limited service area.

The other observation which applies, is the fact that a Taxi can't act as a bus and a bus cant act as a Taxi. So although the two forms of transport carry passengers they do so under completely different circumstances.



So you define Private hire as not being part of public transport? Thats fine, your opinion is welcomed. Would you then define Private hire as being private transport and what is the basis of your opinion for thinking they are not public Transport?

Best wishes

JD

I see what your getting at JD ........... sorry for the delay .

Hackney Carriages and Private Hire vehicles ARE part of any properly integrated PUBLIC TRANSPORT SYSTEM.

Any nonsense spoken to the contrary, shows the ignorance and intolerance that has lead to so many of the unfair activities within the "old school" HC sector.

I doubt that any subsidies would be available to us owner drivers anyway, particularly with people claiming earnings from a taxi at a minimum of £1000 per week. Rest assured though that any subsidies available to such people will never find their way into the pockets of those who need that subsidy.

The question "where does public transport beginand where does it end" isn't defined, as you point out there are so many variables ............... to my mind "public transport" is any form of transport to which the public have access, providing the vehicle and driver have been deemed by the authority concerned to be fit for public service.

I know this is not an answer JD, but thats because there isn't one ......... we really should start campaining for an new governemnt act covering both HC and PH clearly defining them in law as public transport, as well as so much else.

Would it be that both vehicles are licensed by local authorities to serve the public?

The manner in which they operate is not really in question, but the fact that both serve the public, at the publics demand, ensures that the public need protected.

regards

Captain cab

It is significant that both Yorkie and Charlie came up with the same observation when defining the role of a Hackney carriage as a public service vehicle. I suppose it’s the first point they have agreed upon for a long time. However, it shows that most people probably class a Hackney carriage as being a public service vehicle by virtue of the fact that it can be hailed in the street or at a Taxi rank.

It would also appear that there is a consensus which is of the opinion, the one thing that defines a Hackney carriage from a Private hire vehicle, is the simple fact that the Hackney carriage can ply for public hire on a road in the area for which it is licensed. For obvious reasons a Private hire vehicle is not allowed to perform this type of service.

Therefore, having come to the conclusion on the role of a Hackney carriage and by virtue of elimination the role of a Private hire vehicle, how does the Taxi compare to that of Buses, Rail and Air? All of which get some form of subsidy, whether it be an exemption from VAT on fuel or some other form of subsidy.

What is it that makes the Taxi such an integral part of the public Transport network? Yet we get none of the benefits that other Transport sectors get. Does the Government really see us as part of the public transport network as they say they do, or are they just playing with words? When the Government speaks of Taxis as being an Integral part of the Transport system, to me integral means "Important". I would like to think we are important enough to at least get some form of rebate on fuel.

Perhaps a march on London might help concentrate a few minds on this subject.

As a side note, I read one definition of a public service vehicle as being any form of transport that conveyed members of the public. I suppsoe that would include "Rickshaws".

Best wishes

JD

oh dear of course a taxi can act as a bus!
bit of a clumbsy statement that

now private hire, you are teasing John?

private hire are private cars with plates on to say the council has looked at it, with drivers that are screened thats all, part of the public transport system? that lot doesnt know what that means.

yes I aggree with that.

private hire upstart DO NOT CARRY THE PUBLIC

as that would be unlawful

of course taxis can get vat free fuel, you just need to be registered and all that goes with it

Airlines are not subsidised, neither are ferries, trains and buses are only where they serve a function approved by the LA

Same as taxis realy, incidentaly councils cannot subsidise taxis unless they do contract service but they can subsidise private hire

need to polish up John your halo is slipping

So airplanes don't carry the public either then?

_________________
IDFIMH

some do some dont, in exactly the same way, chartered for instance dont but scheduled do