Taxi Driver Online :: View topic - Norwich & electric wheelchairs

Anyone know if this wheelchair business was resolved in Norwich?

Ban On Wheelchairs Has Left Us Stranded

DISABLED people in Norwich are being left stranded because black cab drivers are refusing to take electric wheelchairs. Campaigners on disability issues said people were no longer able to use the cabs, which are often a lifeline, because of insurance regulations.

Steve Smith, 34, who has used a wheelchair since childhood, was among the people left shocked and angry when cab drivers refused to take him home in his electric wheelchair. Mr Smith of Oak Street, Norwich, said: "I have now been told I can't use the taxis because of the positioning of my electric wheelchair. I am so angry as this has left me stranded and totally stuck. I know it is not the taxi drivers' fault and they are just abiding by the laws, but it is very unfair.

"If I break down in my chair, who do I call now? I rely on them to help me. This has been ongoing for some time and it is having a real impact on my life."

Paul Hutchinson, from York Street, also uses an electric wheelchair and said the rules had come as a real blow. "I went to Guildhall as I normally do and they all turned me down," said the 32-year old. "I am really upset and this has left me in an awkward position as I rely on them to get around. I do have a fairly jazzy wheelchair, but this is the first time I have had problems."

Jon Perks, chairman of Norwich Hackney Trade Association, said the hands of drivers were tied. It is all down to insurance companies," he said. "All wheelchairs should be turned around and strapped in and there are certain types which cannot do this and certain models which are too big. We did go to City Hall about it, but they also insisted they had to be turned around and strapped in. He said: Drivers were still taking them until it came to my attention a couple of months ago and so this is probably why it has come up. If we took them and had an accident we could lose everything."

Rachel Bobbitt, spokeswoman for the City Council, said: "It is not a situation the council is happy with, but we have done everything we can to ensure Norwich taxis are accessible. The problem is due to the positioning of a wheelchair inside a hackney cab. To be safe and properly secure in the event of an accident, vehicle manufacturers advise us that wheelchairs must be fixed and the person must fact the back. Unfortunately, due to their size, some wheelchairs cannot be positioned in this manner, which then means in the event of an accident the passenger is not fully secured."

Jonathan Toye, chairman of the Norwich Coalition for the Disabled, said: "There is always a shortage of cabs for disabled people and if this is happening it would be terrible. Many rely on taxis to get around and it would be an awful blow."

Article from Taxi talk online.

JD

In Edinburgh we do every type of wheelchair going within reason,the amount of wheelchairs that we have to travel side ways are few and far between.There are the DRIVERS THAT HAVE THERE OBJECTIONS but generally there are very few refusals.
Yes the insurance will not cover you if you have the wheel chair side ways but tell me a cabbie that has never broke a rule or bent it,if a child is in a made to measure wheel chair you are not going to refuse but you make it clear to the escort what you are doing is way beyond your call of duty.As for electric wheel chairs if its to big you dont take it.the customer must know

As a matter of interest (maybe), were told by our LA if we cannot secure the wheelchair in the correct position, we are entitled to refuse the hire.

Captain cab

Some wheelchairs, obviously can't be secured in the correct way because of their unusual size but do all councils take this into account and what advice do they give if a wheelchair has to be loaded sideways on? If anyone is in any doubt perhaps they should contact their compliance officer because I think it is to your advantage to know the health and safety issues in this respect.

Cap? I couldn't understand if you were saying that maybe we should be told, or that you are told?

Do Carlisle council tell you how to approach the situation and do you not think it appropriate for a Council to either put the condition for refusing a wheelchair appliance either on the Tariff card, or perhaps on a separate notice that could also be displayed inside the vehicle, besides the bye law handbook?

pat wrote:

There was a case highlighted on TDO about three months ago where a H/C driver was suspended for six months for not using the correct wheelchair procedure. Yet we have a council in Norwich which supports the exclusion of wheel chairs if they can't be physically secured in the correct way.

I find that interesting from a legal point of view.

Regards

JD

Yes its a difficult one which we in Edinburgh bear the brunt off but how do you refuse a child in a special wheel chair because you have to put it side ways,I bet most of the drunks at night travel that way or on the floor.
I agree saftey first and also your job if only they had off consulted a number of drivers over the years then modifications could of been made and disabled people would have suitable transport.
It would be nice for the councils to make payment to taxidrivers when there taxis are damaged in helping the disabled

This area gets greyer and greyer.

Councils are demanding WAV.

But

The fastest growing area of the wheelchair markets are impossible to secure safely in most WAV's.

The wheelchair manufacturers still refuse to certify them safe to travel in.

So we are faced with being asked to provide specifically designed vehicles that don't actually provide what is required of them.

cap is your p.c. ...o.k...T

Tom Thumb wrote:

But Yorkie my experience shows that the bog standard wheelchair is disappearing fast over the horizon.

You can't build a standard wheelchair and tell 'all' they have to accept it, that isn't the new world.

It seems this policy is trying to provide a solution tomorrow to last years problem.

all we are expected to carry is a bog standard wheelchair

Author:	JD [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:42 am ]
Post subject:	Norwich & electric wheelchairs
Anyone know if this wheelchair business was resolved in Norwich? Ban On Wheelchairs Has Left Us Stranded DISABLED people in Norwich are being left stranded because black cab drivers are refusing to take electric wheelchairs. Campaigners on disability issues said people were no longer able to use the cabs, which are often a lifeline, because of insurance regulations. Steve Smith, 34, who has used a wheelchair since childhood, was among the people left shocked and angry when cab drivers refused to take him home in his electric wheelchair. Mr Smith of Oak Street, Norwich, said: "I have now been told I can't use the taxis because of the positioning of my electric wheelchair. I am so angry as this has left me stranded and totally stuck. I know it is not the taxi drivers' fault and they are just abiding by the laws, but it is very unfair. "If I break down in my chair, who do I call now? I rely on them to help me. This has been ongoing for some time and it is having a real impact on my life." Paul Hutchinson, from York Street, also uses an electric wheelchair and said the rules had come as a real blow. "I went to Guildhall as I normally do and they all turned me down," said the 32-year old. "I am really upset and this has left me in an awkward position as I rely on them to get around. I do have a fairly jazzy wheelchair, but this is the first time I have had problems." Jon Perks, chairman of Norwich Hackney Trade Association, said the hands of drivers were tied. It is all down to insurance companies," he said. "All wheelchairs should be turned around and strapped in and there are certain types which cannot do this and certain models which are too big. We did go to City Hall about it, but they also insisted they had to be turned around and strapped in. He said: Drivers were still taking them until it came to my attention a couple of months ago and so this is probably why it has come up. If we took them and had an accident we could lose everything." Rachel Bobbitt, spokeswoman for the City Council, said: "It is not a situation the council is happy with, but we have done everything we can to ensure Norwich taxis are accessible. The problem is due to the positioning of a wheelchair inside a hackney cab. To be safe and properly secure in the event of an accident, vehicle manufacturers advise us that wheelchairs must be fixed and the person must fact the back. Unfortunately, due to their size, some wheelchairs cannot be positioned in this manner, which then means in the event of an accident the passenger is not fully secured." Jonathan Toye, chairman of the Norwich Coalition for the Disabled, said: "There is always a shortage of cabs for disabled people and if this is happening it would be terrible. Many rely on taxis to get around and it would be an awful blow." Article from Taxi talk online. JD

Author:	pat [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Norwich & electric wheelchairs
JD wrote: Anyone know if this wheelchair business was resolved in Norwich? Ban On Wheelchairs Has Left Us Stranded DISABLED people in Norwich are being left stranded because black cab drivers are refusing to take electric wheelchairs. Campaigners on disability issues said people were no longer able to use the cabs, which are often a lifeline, because of insurance regulations. Steve Smith, 34, who has used a wheelchair since childhood, was among the people left shocked and angry when cab drivers refused to take him home in his electric wheelchair. Mr Smith of Oak Street, Norwich, said: "I have now been told I can't use the taxis because of the positioning of my electric wheelchair. I am so angry as this has left me stranded and totally stuck. I know it is not the taxi drivers' fault and they are just abiding by the laws, but it is very unfair. "If I break down in my chair, who do I call now? I rely on them to help me. This has been ongoing for some time and it is having a real impact on my life." Paul Hutchinson, from York Street, also uses an electric wheelchair and said the rules had come as a real blow. "I went to Guildhall as I normally do and they all turned me down," said the 32-year old. "I am really upset and this has left me in an awkward position as I rely on them to get around. I do have a fairly jazzy wheelchair, but this is the first time I have had problems." Jon Perks, chairman of Norwich Hackney Trade Association, said the hands of drivers were tied. It is all down to insurance companies," he said. "All wheelchairs should be turned around and strapped in and there are certain types which cannot do this and certain models which are too big. We did go to City Hall about it, but they also insisted they had to be turned around and strapped in. He said: Drivers were still taking them until it came to my attention a couple of months ago and so this is probably why it has come up. If we took them and had an accident we could lose everything." Rachel Bobbitt, spokeswoman for the City Council, said: "It is not a situation the council is happy with, but we have done everything we can to ensure Norwich taxis are accessible. The problem is due to the positioning of a wheelchair inside a hackney cab. To be safe and properly secure in the event of an accident, vehicle manufacturers advise us that wheelchairs must be fixed and the person must fact the back. Unfortunately, due to their size, some wheelchairs cannot be positioned in this manner, which then means in the event of an accident the passenger is not fully secured." Jonathan Toye, chairman of the Norwich Coalition for the Disabled, said: "There is always a shortage of cabs for disabled people and if this is happening it would be terrible. Many rely on taxis to get around and it would be an awful blow." Article from Taxi talk online. JD Quote: In Edinburgh we do every type of wheelchair going within reason,the amount of wheelchairs that we have to travel side ways are few and far between.There are the DRIVERS THAT HAVE THERE OBJECTIONS but generally there are very few refusals. Yes the insurance will not cover you if you have the wheel chair side ways but tell me a cabbie that has never broke a rule or bent it,if a child is in a made to measure wheel chair you are not going to refuse but you make it clear to the escort what you are doing is way beyond your call of duty.As for electric wheel chairs if its to big you dont take it.the customer must know

Author:	Nidge2 [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Norwich & electric wheelchairs
JD wrote: Anyone know if this wheelchair business was resolved in Norwich? Ban On Wheelchairs Has Left Us Stranded DISABLED people in Norwich are being left stranded because black cab drivers are refusing to take electric wheelchairs. Campaigners on disability issues said people were no longer able to use the cabs, which are often a lifeline, because of insurance regulations. Steve Smith, 34, who has used a wheelchair since childhood, was among the people left shocked and angry when cab drivers refused to take him home in his electric wheelchair. Mr Smith of Oak Street, Norwich, said: "I have now been told I can't use the taxis because of the positioning of my electric wheelchair. I am so angry as this has left me stranded and totally stuck. I know it is not the taxi drivers' fault and they are just abiding by the laws, but it is very unfair. "If I break down in my chair, who do I call now? I rely on them to help me. This has been ongoing for some time and it is having a real impact on my life." Paul Hutchinson, from York Street, also uses an electric wheelchair and said the rules had come as a real blow. "I went to Guildhall as I normally do and they all turned me down," said the 32-year old. "I am really upset and this has left me in an awkward position as I rely on them to get around. I do have a fairly jazzy wheelchair, but this is the first time I have had problems." Jon Perks, chairman of Norwich Hackney Trade Association, said the hands of drivers were tied. It is all down to insurance companies," he said. "All wheelchairs should be turned around and strapped in and there are certain types which cannot do this and certain models which are too big. We did go to City Hall about it, but they also insisted they had to be turned around and strapped in. He said: Drivers were still taking them until it came to my attention a couple of months ago and so this is probably why it has come up. If we took them and had an accident we could lose everything." Rachel Bobbitt, spokeswoman for the City Council, said: "It is not a situation the council is happy with, but we have done everything we can to ensure Norwich taxis are accessible. The problem is due to the positioning of a wheelchair inside a hackney cab. To be safe and properly secure in the event of an accident, vehicle manufacturers advise us that wheelchairs must be fixed and the person must fact the back. Unfortunately, due to their size, some wheelchairs cannot be positioned in this manner, which then means in the event of an accident the passenger is not fully secured." Jonathan Toye, chairman of the Norwich Coalition for the Disabled, said: "There is always a shortage of cabs for disabled people and if this is happening it would be terrible. Many rely on taxis to get around and it would be an awful blow." Article from Taxi talk online. JD The lads in Mansfield have been told they can't take the electric wheelchairs by the Council, they have to use a minibus.

Author:	JD [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Norwich & electric wheelchairs
pat wrote: In Edinburgh we do every type of wheelchair going within reason,the amount of wheelchairs that we have to travel side ways are few and far between.There are the DRIVERS THAT HAVE THERE OBJECTIONS but generally there are very few refusals. Yes the insurance will not cover you if you have the wheel chair side ways but tell me a cabbie that has never broke a rule or bent it,if a child is in a made to measure wheel chair you are not going to refuse but you make it clear to the escort what you are doing is way beyond your call of duty.As for electric wheel chairs if its to big you dont take it.the customer must know There was a case highlighted on TDO about three months ago where a H/C driver was suspended for six months for not using the correct wheelchair procedure. Yet we have a council in Norwich which supports the exclusion of wheel chairs if they can't be physically secured in the correct way. I find that interesting from a legal point of view. Regards JD

Author:	captain cab [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:28 am ]
Post subject:
As a matter of interest (maybe), were told by our LA if we cannot secure the wheelchair in the correct position, we are entitled to refuse the hire. Captain cab

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Author:	JD [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:
captain cab wrote: As a matter of interest (maybe), were told by our LA if we cannot secure the wheelchair in the correct position, we are entitled to refuse the hire. Captain cab Some wheelchairs, obviously can't be secured in the correct way because of their unusual size but do all councils take this into account and what advice do they give if a wheelchair has to be loaded sideways on? If anyone is in any doubt perhaps they should contact their compliance officer because I think it is to your advantage to know the health and safety issues in this respect. Cap? I couldn't understand if you were saying that maybe we should be told, or that you are told? Do Carlisle council tell you how to approach the situation and do you not think it appropriate for a Council to either put the condition for refusing a wheelchair appliance either on the Tariff card, or perhaps on a separate notice that could also be displayed inside the vehicle, besides the bye law handbook? Best wishes JD

Author:	captain cab [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Some wheelchairs, obviously can't be secured in the correct way because of their unusual size but do all councils take this into account and what advice do they give if a wheelchair has to be loaded sideways on? If anyone is in any doubt perhaps they should contact their compliance officer because I think it is to your advantage to know the health and safety issues in this respect. Cap? I couldn't understand if you were saying that maybe we should be told, or that you are told? Do Carlisle council tell you how to approach the situation and do you not think it appropriate for a Council to either put the condition for refusing a wheelchair appliance either on the Tariff card, or perhaps on a separate notice that could also be displayed inside the vehicle, besides the bye law handbook? JD, The DFT through DPTAC offer advice to both taxi and private hire drivers. This specifically says on no accounts travel with a wheelchair facing sideways. We attended a meeting with the local authority during January 04 (i think) and it was stated if the driver cannot secure the wheelchair in the correct manner, as approved by the vehicle manufactirer, then the driver should politely explain this to the passenger but on no account do the hire as Cumbria Constabulary had advised the local authority they would prosecute. The local TOA recently sent out the DFT guidance to members in a booklet form. Regards Captain cab

Author:	pat [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Norwich & electric wheelchairs
JD wrote: pat wrote: In Edinburgh we do every type of wheelchair going within reason,the amount of wheelchairs that we have to travel side ways are few and far between.There are the DRIVERS THAT HAVE THERE OBJECTIONS but generally there are very few refusals. Yes the insurance will not cover you if you have the wheel chair side ways but tell me a cabbie that has never broke a rule or bent it,if a child is in a made to measure wheel chair you are not going to refuse but you make it clear to the escort what you are doing is way beyond your call of duty.As for electric wheel chairs if its to big you dont take it.the customer must know There was a case highlighted on TDO about three months ago where a H/C driver was suspended for six months for not using the correct wheelchair procedure. Yet we have a council in Norwich which supports the exclusion of wheel chairs if they can't be physically secured in the correct way. I find that interesting from a legal point of view. Regards JD Quote: Yes its a difficult one which we in Edinburgh bear the brunt off but how do you refuse a child in a special wheel chair because you have to put it side ways,I bet most of the drunks at night travel that way or on the floor. I agree saftey first and also your job if only they had off consulted a number of drivers over the years then modifications could of been made and disabled people would have suitable transport. It would be nice for the councils to make payment to taxidrivers when there taxis are damaged in helping the disabled

Author:	paul [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:
As far as I have been told,no wheelchair customer should travel sideways in their wheelchair. This is against the insurance company,s rules and the customer is therefore not insured. This problem will not go away,in fact due to the wheelchairs now being moulded for the disabled person,(gives more comfort) I am finding more weird and wonderful chairs. This problem will have to be resolved before the customer or driver badly injures themselves. Not being funny,but the Doblo although one council saying it will not allow this vehicle on,due to back loading,is the best for access and clamping securely.

Author:	Tom Thumb [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:
This area gets greyer and greyer. Councils are demanding WAV. But The fastest growing area of the wheelchair markets are impossible to secure safely in most WAV's. The wheelchair manufacturers still refuse to certify them safe to travel in. So we are faced with being asked to provide specifically designed vehicles that don't actually provide what is required of them.

Author:	Yorkie [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:
Tom Thumb wrote: This area gets greyer and greyer. Councils are demanding WAV. But The fastest growing area of the wheelchair markets are impossible to secure safely in most WAV's. The wheelchair manufacturers still refuse to certify them safe to travel in. So we are faced with being asked to provide specifically designed vehicles that don't actually provide what is required of them. all we are expected to carry is a bog standard wheelchair

Author:	Guest [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:12 am ]
Post subject:
cap is your p.c. ...o.k...T

Author:	pat [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:16 am ]
Post subject:
MR T wrote: cap is your p.c. ...o.k...T I think his pc,s fine hows yours darlin???

Author:	Tom Thumb [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:30 am ]
Post subject:
Yorkie wrote: Tom Thumb wrote: This area gets greyer and greyer. Councils are demanding WAV. But The fastest growing area of the wheelchair markets are impossible to secure safely in most WAV's. The wheelchair manufacturers still refuse to certify them safe to travel in. So we are faced with being asked to provide specifically designed vehicles that don't actually provide what is required of them. But Yorkie my experience shows that the bog standard wheelchair is disappearing fast over the horizon. You can't build a standard wheelchair and tell 'all' they have to accept it, that isn't the new world. It seems this policy is trying to provide a solution tomorrow to last years problem. all we are expected to carry is a bog standard wheelchair

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Author:	Yorkie [ Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:42 am ]
Post subject:
Iam aware of what you are saying, but the regs say.......................... are we to carry unsafe loads?