Taxi Driver Online

How is it that some Minibus companies both hire their COIF certificated Minibus as a PCV complete with driver under an operators licence, and then next day hire the same vehicle out as a self drive minibus that anyone old enough can drive on a car license?

Wouldn't there be a conflict of use or a separate insurance needed for such hires.? That would be Difficult as you cannot insure the same vehicle twice at the same time!

A PSV is only a PSV if it has a disc on display.

Take the disc out and it is no-longer a PSV.

I think.

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IDFIMH

I think there is provision for minibuses to be hired with or without a driver if they are under a certain number of seats the driver is hired separately to the vehicle IIRC. Above a certain number of seats they have to be driven by someone with a PSV license

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lack of modern legislation is the iceberg sinking the titanic of the transport sector

The general rule is "once a psv always a psv" until it is withdrawn from service i.e. sold for private use/used as a driver trainer etc.

In my view, what they are doing is illegal. Who is to tell whether the driver has the correct pcv entitlement or not? Would he know how or when to sue a tacho? Would the passengers be paying fares? I'll ask the question of the psv trade body and see what they say.

Meanwhile, I'd suggest you get the hard evidence and pass it to enquiries@vosa.gov.uk . They don't like such operations and the minibus operator could find himself on a Public Inquiry. No operator worth his salt would hire a psv to a non-psv driver. Insurance wouldn't cover it either.

Just by taking the operators disc out of the window does not make it cease to be a psv. If it has a Certificate of Initial Fitness (COIF) and is taxed as a bus, then it is a psv! Change the tax to private, and it ceases to be a bus but then needs to be tested under the class 5 test regime.

edited to add: thinking about it, VOSA would take a very dim view of a registered psv carrying a load of passengers with no psv driver and no O licence on display.

Spot on, that is my view as well, however:
taken from PSV 437
Public Service Vehicle Operator Licensing
Guide for Operators

Is a vehicle still a PSV even when it is not carrying passengers?If the vehicle is parked in a depot or garage (or is being driven between two depots or is temporarily laid up for any reason) it is still a PSV. It only stops being a PSV when its use as one has been permanently discontinued; for example, if you take a vehicle out of service altogether and adapt it for some other use (such as driver training).
There is an exception for vehicles that are sometimes used as taxis, PHVs or PHCs and sometimes as PSVs under a special restricted PSV operator’s licence (see Annex 3). These vehicles are PSVs only when they are being used on registered local bus services. When they are not being used as PSVs they are taxis or PHVs or PHCs and the rules covering taxi and private hire licensing apply.

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you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

Correct. I just couldn't lay my eyes on the relevant document at the time. So what the minibus hirer is doing is illegal and remember the linky above to VOSA who take a keen interest in such breaches.