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 Post subject: Voluntary car services
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:07 am 
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Having sat through a meeting with Kent County council and various Community Transport groups the other day, one outfit caught my eye, a "car service" operated by "volunteers" in the Folkestone area. their publicity mentions "membership fee"; "mileage charge", "running costs" and the like.

So mrs roythebus (a licenced ph driver) phoned them to ask about the cost of sending her "elderly father" on a hospital trip.
45p a mile came the reply, each way, and up to an hour waiting at the hospital. So that would be £13; hospital parking is £2 an hour, so the driver would just about cover his running costs.

Next question,
do you have insurance for hire and reward...
ummm...yes, we take care of that....
do you have public liability insurance....
ermmm...I'll have to ask...
if my granddaughter want to go with him, can the driver take her too?
Yes, that's not a problem.
Are your drivers CRB checked?
What's that?
Well, it's a way of checking your drivers aren't paedophiles.
Oh no, nothing like that, all our drivers have clean licences.
Ermmm....thank you.

So yet another bunch of do-gooders driving a coach and horses through the licencing regulations with the blessing of the health authority and the councils who subsidise their activities.

At the meeting, it seemed it was all about what good boys the CT organisations are, doing Things For Nothing while the people running it get decent salaries, while at the same time doing the likes of us out of business!

Hopefully that will all end soon if Martin Allen is proved right. I just wish I had the money to fund a test case against one of that lot.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:28 am 
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roythebus wrote:
Having sat through a meeting with Kent County council and various Community Transport groups the other day, one outfit caught my eye, a "car service" operated by "volunteers" in the Folkestone area. their publicity mentions "membership fee"; "mileage charge", "running costs" and the like.

So mrs roythebus (a licenced ph driver) phoned them to ask about the cost of sending her "elderly father" on a hospital trip.
45p a mile came the reply, each way, and up to an hour waiting at the hospital. So that would be £13; hospital parking is £2 an hour, so the driver would just about cover his running costs.

Next question,
do you have insurance for hire and reward...
ummm...yes, we take care of that....
do you have public liability insurance....
ermmm...I'll have to ask...
if my granddaughter want to go with him, can the driver take her too?
Yes, that's not a problem.
Are your drivers CRB checked?
What's that?
Well, it's a way of checking your drivers aren't [edited by admin].
Oh no, nothing like that, all our drivers have clean licences.
Ermmm....thank you.

So yet another bunch of do-gooders driving a coach and horses through the licencing regulations with the blessing of the health authority and the councils who subsidise their activities.

At the meeting, it seemed it was all about what good boys the CT organisations are, doing Things For Nothing while the people running it get decent salaries, while at the same time doing the likes of us out of business!

Hopefully that will all end soon if Martin Allen is proved right. I just wish I had the money to fund a test case against one of that lot.



They're earning more than that. Round here they're raking in over £500 per week.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:53 pm 
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over 15 years ago i ran 2 cars with an ambulance service, 1 plated, 1 not, bot as "volunteers" and hit £660 a week, i had a ex-copper (sarge) driving for cash to supplement his pension

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:23 pm 
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As soon as it becomes obvious that they're making money/getting bigger, or something untoward happens in one of these cars with a driver who hasn't been CRB checked, they will do something about it. How can the drivers make money though at 45p a mile? That's unbelievable.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:33 pm 
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ace of spades wrote:
How can the drivers make money though at 45p a mile? That's unbelievable.

that is the point though isn't it. They are not supposed to be making money. They are volunteers.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:09 pm 
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45p per mile - HMRC

If you consider Bolsover charge £1.00 per paid mile - then consider the cab has to get back empty - it translates to 50p per mile in Bolsover
http://www.bolsover.gov.uk/images/H/hac ... _table.pdf

The next nearest on the low fare league is South Kesteven - they run at £1.80 per mile = translating to £0.90p - interestingly they do have a £12 booking fee - so presumably the area is rural;

http://www.southkesteven.gov.uk/CHttpHa ... d=5776&p=0

I believe Hartlepool is possibly the worst - by my reckonings they run at £0.83p per mile - translating to £0.41.5p -

http://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/downloads/ ... taxi_fares

taxi fares are weird

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:02 am 
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grandad wrote:
ace of spades wrote:
How can the drivers make money though at 45p a mile? That's unbelievable.

that is the point though isn't it. They are not supposed to be making money. They are volunteers.
Yes, but realistically no one would do it if they didn't make money. According to Nidge his local "volunteers" are clearing £500 a week. I wonder where the taxman sits in all of this. Probably nowhere.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:49 am 
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ace of spades wrote:
grandad wrote:
ace of spades wrote:
How can the drivers make money though at 45p a mile? That's unbelievable.

that is the point though isn't it. They are not supposed to be making money. They are volunteers.
Yes, but realistically no one would do it if they didn't make money. According to Nidge his local "volunteers" are clearing £500 a week. I wonder where the taxman sits in all of this. Probably nowhere.



HMRC use the RAC/AA valuation of the cost of owning+running a car

Quote:
AA running costs tables are intended only as a general guide to the costs associated with owning and running a car.

AA running costs tables have no official status and are not intended to be used as the basis for setting mileage rates for business use of private cars.

Approved mileage rates are set by HMRC and reviewed from time to time.

The AA tables are based on the costs of running a four year old car. Actual running costs will vary by individual depending on car choice, age, type of use and driving style.


It ranges from 45p/mile to 95p

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:03 am 
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ace of spades wrote:
As soon as it becomes obvious that they're making money/getting bigger, or something untoward happens in one of these cars with a driver who hasn't been CRB checked, they will do something about it. How can the drivers make money though at 45p a mile? That's unbelievable.



When they've got four passengers on board it's 45p a mile X 4 so they're getting £1.80 a mile. You never see them running with less than two on board.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:
ace of spades wrote:
As soon as it becomes obvious that they're making money/getting bigger, or something untoward happens in one of these cars with a driver who hasn't been CRB checked, they will do something about it. How can the drivers make money though at 45p a mile? That's unbelievable.



When they've got four passengers on board it's 45p a mile X 4 so they're getting £1.80 a mile. You never see them running with less than two on board.
I see. So for all intents and purposes it's 90p/mile minimum, and more if there's more people. Wouldn't that be a problem though if someone wanted to travel alone?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:07 pm 
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ace of spades wrote:
Nidge2 wrote:
ace of spades wrote:
As soon as it becomes obvious that they're making money/getting bigger, or something untoward happens in one of these cars with a driver who hasn't been CRB checked, they will do something about it. How can the drivers make money though at 45p a mile? That's unbelievable.



When they've got four passengers on board it's 45p a mile X 4 so they're getting £1.80 a mile. You never see them running with less than two on board.
I see. So for all intents and purposes it's 90p/mile minimum, and more if there's more people. Wouldn't that be a problem though if someone wanted to travel alone?



They make sure they don't travel alone, there's always 3 of 4 passengers. They've even started working nights now. Their minibus is out doing runs to the night clubs and back.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:36 pm 
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I just hope they've all got hire an reward insurance. See the case of Albert v MIB in the Court case database section! That clearly defines anything like this as hire and reward irrespective of how much they do or don't make. All it'll take is someone with enough money to bring another test case quoting this ruling.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:34 pm 
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roythebus wrote:
All it'll take is someone with enough money to bring another test case quoting this ruling.
Surely if they don't have the correct insurance it's a police matter, and incorrect licence a council one ? So why is either not taking action ?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:49 am 
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staff cuts as usual?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:25 am 
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ace of spades wrote:
As soon as it becomes obvious that they're making money/getting bigger, or something untoward happens in one of these cars with a driver who hasn't been CRB checked, they will do something about it. How can the drivers make money though at 45p a mile? That's unbelievable.


They can make money because they have fewer overheads, they already run their Vehicle for their own Private use so their only Over heads are Fuel and small percentage of the cars maintenance costs. If they run a Small car as many do they will can travel a 100 miles (£45.00) for about £10 of fuel and lets say £3.00 additional maintenance costs over and above their private running costs..that Leaves £32.00 for a hundred Miles all tax free.

That same 45pence per mile would be more like 60 pence per mile if it were taxable and that's getting up towards the fares that some of these cheap budget PH numpties charge per mile...

Does anyone know if the Volunteers get paid for their empty vehicle return miles?


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