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 Post subject: community transport
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:38 pm 
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One of our drivers was picking up at an address when our local community transport people showed up to drop off a passenger. We know that this passenger was picked up from around a third of a mile away because we often take this passenger on the same journey. The fare when we do the job on the meter is always between £2.50 and £2.60, flagfall being £2.50. Our driver heard the community transport driver asking the customer for £2.95. I have rang our licensing team and left a message but should I be reporting it to anyone else and if so, who?

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:22 pm 
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So the meter fare is £2.50; they charge £2.95, therefore more than the 45p per mile that is deemed the cost of running the car. and therefore running for profit. Breaching the law, running for hire and reward without the appropriate licences. I wonder if the CT group's cars have insurance for H&R? The drivers are operating by breaking the licencing laws if they don't have p/h badges, get the book thrown at them is my view.

BUT, as they are a "community transport" group, the council will probably do sweet FA about it. It's going to take an LO with balls to take one of these to court, even though they're on to a sure fire "nick" in my view. The sam principles that Martin Allen has been chasing through the EU on the s19 minibus operations can equally apply to CT cars for hire. They are operating for "fiscal activity, regardless of the status of the operator".

The government has chosen to ignore their own laws regarding such operations and have instructed the DVSA not to take any action against s19 minibuses, which is why Martin is now insisting on a judicial review of the matter.

I suppose any one of us could always take a private prosecution against one of the CT car outfits if we had sufficient funds. I reckon it's going to take a nasty accident to get shot of these operations once and for all.


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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:01 pm 
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Quote:
but should I be reporting it to anyone else and if so, who?

Don't suppose it would hurt if you sent a complaint to the Traffic Commissioner.

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Location: A City near Birmingham
more shocked anyone anywhere has a hack rate of £2.50....lol

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:50 pm 
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Ministry of transport
The community transport group itself, always good to get there reply
I would probably volunteer as a driver, then you will be on the inside. Do they do medicals, dbs, insurance? Who knows what you will learn.they obviously can use public transport.

Voluntary Action Melton provides a community transport service for people who live in Melton Borough. This scheme is provided by volunteers drivers. If you are frail, elderly or disabled and cannot use use public transport you will be eligible.

The cost is dependent on where you live and where you go to. Bookings should be made at least two days in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:29 pm 
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I wrote to the community transport.

Dear Gill,

My mother in law lives in Mowbray Court and she is 92 years old. She is finding it more difficult to get around these days and I am wondering if you are able to assist with transport to Morrisons for her to do her shopping and occasionally to Latham House for appointments.

Please can you let me know if this is something that you can help will and the cost.

Regards,

Pete

They replied

Hello Pete,


Gill has forwarded me your email regarding transport for your mother.


Yes, we do run a Community Transport Scheme with volunteer drivers. There is a charge for the service, however, that depends on where you are going. Within Melton, the fare is £5.90 return.

We do need at least a weeks notice if possible, as we only have a limit to the amount of jobs we can do with the drivers that are available.

There is a registration form that your mum needs to complete which I can send out for you if let me have the address.

If you require any further info, please don't hesitate to contact me.


Kind regards


Angie

I sent the email to our licensing department.


Dear XXXXX,

Please find attached an email from Melton Community Transport offering to provide a vehicle for a journey within the town. This can be very short journey which is costing more than a taxi. This is clearly making a profit which is not allowed for community transport and is clearly offering to provide a privateers service without being licenced to do so. Also the vehicle being used is not licenced for private hire and neither is the driver. This service has been offered without any check that the person wanting to use the service meets the criteria for the offer of this service.

Regards,

Pete

They replied.

Dear Peter,

I had made some enquiries when XXXXXX XXXXXXXXX contacted me yesterday.



Community transport runs as a bus service and is regulated by the Traffic Commissioner (VOSA) under either a Section 19 or 22 Permit



‘An operator’s licence allows a person or an organisation to operate passenger carrying vehicles in return for any kind of ‘Hire or Reward’. You are likely to require an operator’s licence of some type because “hire or reward” will exist in the majority, if not all, transport operations.



Public Service Vehicle (PSV) Operator Licence



Private or commercial companies that operate transport will need to apply for a PSV operator’s licence. Where only one or two minibuses are run a restricted operator’s licence may be sufficient.

These are issued by the Traffic Commissioner through their Central Office in Leeds, their contact number is 0300 123 9000.



If your organisation is a not-for-profit organisation you will be eligible to operate passenger transport using section 19, section 22 or section 10B permits and to charge for transport, but at a not-for-profit rate.’



This link provides further information you might find useful: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -transport



We have no jurisdiction over the Community transport but I could suggest contacting VOSA via permits@vosa.gov.uk



Hope this answers your concerns



Kind Regards

My email to the traffic commissioner.

Dear sirs,
As a taxi driver in Melton Mowbray I believe that Voluntary Action Melton are operating a service that is in fact making a profit. The reason for this is because on some journey's the cost of £5.90 is actually above the rate set by Melton Borough Council for a taxi. I believe that this operation should not be classed as community transport and should more accurately classed as private hire and licensed accordingly.
Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:34 pm 
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Quote:
. We have no jurisdiction over the Community transport but I could suggest contacting VOSA via permits@vosa.gov.uk


Perhaps you would like to tell them that VOSA is no more.
I would try the DVSA


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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:02 pm 
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Location: Stamford Britains prettiest town till SKDC ruined it
wannabeeahack wrote:
more shocked anyone anywhere has a hack rate of £2.50....lol


we can technically have a fare as low as £1.80 and most days usually get about 6 to 10 fares UNDER £2.50 :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Quote:
we can technically have a fare as low as £1.80 and most days usually get about 6 to 10 fares UNDER £2.50

I'm guessing you lot still live in caves.

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:50 am 
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The Great Community transport scam just runs and runs and runs, will people ever see them for what they really are? they are little more than charity sponsored cash cows to be milked dry by their directors off the back of volunteer labour and gullible customers.


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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:05 am 
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It depends whether your CT group uses cars. If they do, then it is a matter for the council licencing authority. The Traffic commissioner does not have any say when it comes to vehicles with under 9 passenger seats. these come under the council.

As I've said many times on here, there's EU case law, (love it or hate it) and UK case law about what constitutes hire and reward and "not for profit" but the UK authorities refuse to enforce any of it. Martin Allen has been campaigning against s19 CT groups for years and is now having to run a Judicial Review on the matter as the government has instructed the DfT and DVSA not to take any action against CT groups!

Maybe if you can afford a private prosecution people might start to take notice.

With your £2.50 fares, you'll probably make more per mile doing a dozen of those a day than you would on an airport run. :)


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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Location: A City near Birmingham
roythebus wrote:
as the government has instructed the DfT and DVSA not to take any action against CT groups!



Course not, cos it suits them to have subsidised minibuses bidding low on school runs

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Location: Clandestine, soon to be Russia.
wannabeeahack wrote:
roythebus wrote:
as the government has instructed the DfT and DVSA not to take any action against CT groups!



Course not, cos it suits them to have subsidised minibuses bidding low on school runs


Don't forget the night club runs and also don't forget silly season is upon us, they'll be out all hours earning money.


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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:37 pm 
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That bit of information is direct from Martin Allen and part of the case he is putting before the JR and published in RouteOne last week.


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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:43 pm 
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Quote:
The Traffic commissioner does not have any say when it comes to vehicles with under 9 passenger seats. these come under the council.

Then who governs small PSVs?

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