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 Post subject: Runner!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:30 am 
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I actually went out and did some work last night. At 19.55 I had a job come through to do a pick up and go across town. It was from one house to another house. When we got to the destination the front seat passenger said that she just had to go in the house to get the money. And yes you have guessed it, she didn't come back. I knocked on the door but no one answered. Now the fare was only £4.80 so I could have just left it at that and forgot about it, after all it is not the end of the world os it. But I decided that because there has been a lot of crime in the town recently I would report it to the police. I was astonished by their response. I told them that we record all phone calls and that the car has CCTV. They asked if I wanted to deal with it as a civil matter or a criminal matter. I said that I would prefer the criminal route. They are coming to viev the CCTV this afternoon and get all the details. We can provide the names of both of the car occupants and it turns out that the chap in the back seat has not been out of prison long and they are both drug dealers. So this £4.80 fare could be quite costly for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Well done if you let them get away with it they will keep doing it, hopefully the one who is just out is out on license and if convicted will have to go back to the big house.


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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Location: Twixt Heaven and Hell, but nearest Hell
If the guy on licence booked it then he will be back inside ASAP

in fact id not worry about the cash... contact the probation service and HMP....feck him

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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
grandad wrote:
I actually went out and did some work last night. At 19.55 I had a job come through to do a pick up and go across town. It was from one house to another house. When we got to the destination the front seat passenger said that she just had to go in the house to get the money. And yes you have guessed it, she didn't come back. I knocked on the door but no one answered. Now the fare was only £4.80 so I could have just left it at that and forgot about it, after all it is not the end of the world os it. But I decided that because there has been a lot of crime in the town recently I would report it to the police. I was astonished by their response. I told them that we record all phone calls and that the car has CCTV. They asked if I wanted to deal with it as a civil matter or a criminal matter. I said that I would prefer the criminal route. They are coming to viev the CCTV this afternoon and get all the details. We can provide the names of both of the car occupants and it turns out that the chap in the back seat has not been out of prison long and they are both drug dealers. So this £4.80 fare could be quite costly for them.

Good on you. =D>

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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
grandad wrote:
We can provide the names of both of the car occupants and it turns out that the chap in the back seat has not been out of prison long and they are both drug dealers. So this £4.80 fare could be quite costly for them.

He will be on license, he will also be on post sentence supervision by the probation service.

He actions are no different than nicking beer from a supermarket.

I suspect he will offer to pay, and I suspect the police will hope you will accept it.

Don't forget section 11 of the 2006 Fraud Act.

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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:37 pm 
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My two pence worth

The most potent act to secure a conviction of non payment is probably the 1978 Theft act as amended by the 2002 Police reform act. Below are the statutory Powers of arrest.

"Making Off Without Payment - Theft Act s. 3 Statutory power of arrest, Two years' imprisonment on indictment; six months' imprisonment and/or fine on summarily conviction".

The act itself.

The Theft Act 1978, s. 3 states:

(1) Subject to subsection (3) below, a person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods supplied or service done is required or expected of him, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with intent to avoid payment due shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) For purposes of this section 'payment on the spot' includes payment at the time of collecting goods on which work has been done or in respect of which service has been provided.

(3) Subsection (1) above shall not apply where the supply of the goods or the doing of the service is contrary to law, or where the service done is such that payment is not legally enforceable.

(4) Any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is, or whom he, with reasonable, suspects to be, committing or attempting to commit an offence under this section.

Arrestable Offence as amended 01/09/02 under Police Reform Act 2002

MAKING OFF WITHOUT PAYMENT(BILKING)

s3 of the Theft Act 1978
Crime and.Miscellaneous Offences Precedent Manual: B320
• --
POINTS TO PROVE
1.Knowing that payment on the spot...is required 2.For any goods supplied or service done
3.Dishonesty
4.Makes off without having paid as required or expected 5.With intent to avoid payment
Knowing that payment on the spot....is required
The "spot" in question is the place where the payment is required - for example at the end of a taxi ride or a meal or having filled a car with petrol at a service station. The required payment must be legally enforceable, so non-payment of a gambling debt is not an offence under this section.
2 For any goods supplied or service done
Goods include money and every other description of property except land, and includes things severed from the land.
Service is the conferring of a benefit by doing some act, or causing or permitting some act to be done on the understanding that it has been or will be paid for.
3 Dishonesty
This has the same meaning as in theft, namely:
1 Were the suspect's actions dishonest according to the ordinary reasonable
standards of reasonable and honest people, AND
2 If so, did the suspect realise that his actions were, according to those
standards. dishonest?
4 Makes off without having paid as required or expected
This will usually mean leaving the premises concerned, so if a suspect is prevented from leaving at the door, he commits only the attempt.
This includes slipping away, running out or driving off.
5 With intent to avoid payment
The intent must be to make permanent default; an intention to delay or defer payment is not enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:32 am 
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Location: Stamford Britains prettiest town till SKDC ruined it
Quote:
They asked if I wanted to deal with it as a civil matter or a criminal matter


at least leicestershire police give you the option :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:12 pm 
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It turns out that the person who made the booking was not the person in the car. The police are not concerned by that though. The people in the car have been positively identified and the still photo provided by us is of a good quality. Whilst in the office the officer checked the picture with photos on the woman's facebook page and agreed that there is no doubt about identity. He did say that it may be possible that they may not pursue it due to the low value of the loss but said that in the circumstances (previous convictions) it is unlikely. They expect to uncover other crimes when they visit the homes (possible drug dealers).

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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:19 pm 
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grandad wrote:
It turns out that the person who made the booking was not the person in the car. The police are not concerned by that though. The people in the car have been positively identified and the still photo provided by us is of a good quality. Whilst in the office the officer checked the picture with photos on the woman's facebook page and agreed that there is no doubt about identity. He did say that it may be possible that they may not pursue it due to the low value of the loss but said that in the circumstances (previous convictions) it is unlikely. They expect to uncover other crimes when they visit the homes (possible drug dealers).



Fraud Act 2006 is what you need to know.
Section 11 "Obtaining services dishonestly"


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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:32 am 
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heathcote wrote:
grandad wrote:
It turns out that the person who made the booking was not the person in the car. The police are not concerned by that though. The people in the car have been positively identified and the still photo provided by us is of a good quality. Whilst in the office the officer checked the picture with photos on the woman's facebook page and agreed that there is no doubt about identity. He did say that it may be possible that they may not pursue it due to the low value of the loss but said that in the circumstances (previous convictions) it is unlikely. They expect to uncover other crimes when they visit the homes (possible drug dealers).



Fraud Act 2006 is what you need to know.
Section 11 "Obtaining services dishonestly"

I can't remember if it was you or Mr T that provided a copy of this a few years ago but I have used it previously to convince the police that bilking is a criminal offense and not a civil one. I think all drivers should keep a copy with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Posts: 20103
I have an update.
The police have been to see me this morning with the fare. The first sergeant that looked at the paperwork apparently dismissed it as a non starter. However one of our local sergeants looked at it and assigned it to one of the community officers to persue. He went round and gave the couple a good telling off and warned them as to their future conduct.

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Grandad,


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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:56 pm
Posts: 2540
grandad wrote:
I have an update.
The police have been to see me this morning with the fare. The first sergeant that looked at the paperwork apparently dismissed it as a non starter. However one of our local sergeants looked at it and assigned it to one of the community officers to persue. He went round and gave the couple a good telling off and warned them as to their future conduct.


Persistence and the Fraud Act 2006 will always win.


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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:51 pm 
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In Sefton we have a plastic sticker that sticks to the back windows .... That informs the passengers and police that not paying the fare is a criminal offence.....under the fraud act 2006.....supplied by sefton council with the sefton name and logo on it........approved by Merseyside police.. you shold get your council to do the same

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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:54 am 
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MR T wrote:
In Sefton we have a plastic sticker that sticks to the back windows .... That informs the passengers and police that not paying the fare is a criminal offence.....under the fraud act 2006.....supplied by sefton council with the sefton name and logo on it........approved by Merseyside police.. you shold get your council to do the same

That looks like a good idea. Do you have a picture of one so that we can all show it to our councils?

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 Post subject: Re: Runner!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:06 pm
Posts: 24376
Location: Twixt Heaven and Hell, but nearest Hell
grandad wrote:
I have an update.
The police have been to see me this morning with the fare. The first sergeant that looked at the paperwork apparently dismissed it as a non starter. However one of our local sergeants looked at it and assigned it to one of the community officers to persue. He went round and gave the couple a good telling off and warned them as to their future conduct.


now dont do it again....

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most


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