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 Post subject: Poober prices
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:07 am 
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Had four girls ask a price to Llandudno from the station (Chester) Saturday night. Clock price is around £110. I told them that price and they weren’t impressed, I said I’d do it for £100, it’s an easy run, 102 miles there and back and less than 2hrs in total. They said poober had quoted £66.00 she even showed me the price. That’s £1.29 per mile, minus their commission and then fuel and other costs! How do they survive ????? #-o


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 Post subject: Re: Poober prices
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:08 am 
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x-ray wrote:
How do they survive ????? #-o

Because they subsidise fares via money got from, mainly, mugs in California.

To the tune of $10 Billion in the last five years.

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 Post subject: Re: Poober prices
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:18 pm 
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Let them wait for poober; when it comes to surge pricing see what it costs then. :)

Meanwhile, why join the race to the bottom? Even at £100 for 102 mile round trip, you're only "earning" 5p a mile more than the cost of running your car. £5 for 2 hours driving?


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 Post subject: Re: Poober prices
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:44 pm 
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roythebus wrote:
Let them wait for poober; when it comes to surge pricing see what it costs then. :)

Meanwhile, why join the race to the bottom? Even at £100 for 102 mile round trip, you're only "earning" 5p a mile more than the cost of running your car. £5 for 2 hours driving?


Yes Diane (Abbott) =D>


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 Post subject: Re: Poober prices
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:35 pm 
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My bad, I've been reading too many Labour Party posts...I was also thinking of 102 miles each way which is what LHR is from where I used to work.

Fare £100

Running cost is 102miles x 0.45p per mile = £45.90

Wages @ say £10/hour 2 hours x £10 = £20

Profit £34.10

So not too bad after all.

Compare to poober

Fare £66

Running cost is 102 miles x 0.45p per mile = £45.90

Fare price £66, less £45.90 = £14.10 less poober's cut, so not even £7 per hour and bugger all left in the way of profit. Why lose money just for cash turnover?


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 Post subject: Re: Poober prices
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:36 pm
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roythebus wrote:
My bad, I've been reading too many Labour Party posts...I was also thinking of 102 miles each way which is what LHR is from where I used to work.

Running cost is 102miles x 0.45p per mile = £45.90

Wages @ say £10/hour 2 hours x £10 = £20

Profit £34.10

So not too bad after all.


That was my original point, how can anyone make any money out of that for £66.00 ?
I know the how the company survives but not the individual drivers.


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 Post subject: Re: Poober prices
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:04 pm 
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The only way they can make money ut of it is if they get a return from the same area to where they need to get back to, but that's no way to run a business, especially in a rural area where getting a return run has the same chance as getting a BJ from the pope.


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 Post subject: Re: Poober prices
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:54 pm 
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roythebus wrote:
Fare £100

Running cost is 102miles x 0.45p per mile = £45.90

Wages @ say £10/hour 2 hours x £10 = £20

Profit £34.10

So not too bad after all.


Can't work out why you're double counting here?

If it's a self-employed driver scenario (ie the vast majority) then it's a profit rather than a wage, although they're roughly the same thing - a wage generally refers to a fixed sum per hour, while profit obviously varies.

So the profit in actual fact is about £54, thus the equivalent is £27 per hour, so a very good return by most people's standards, which in turn is why many drivers would do it for a whole lot less.

And even then I suspect a lot of drivers won't consider their costs in terms of an average per mile (and I'd guess that for most drivers 45p/mile is on the high side).

Instead, they'll possibly think more in terms of two factors:

1 What is the additional cost of doing the run? Some costs (most obviously licensing and insurance) are fixed, so it wouldn't cost any more to do the run. The most obvious variable cost is fuel, say £12 for the round trip here.

I suspect the additional cost in terms of wear and tear etc would be roughly the same as fuel, but for easy counting let's say £13, so the additional cost of doing the run is £25. Thus the profit is £75, or £37.50 per hour :shock:

2 The other major factor is to consider what the driver would be doing otherwise. So if it was last thing at night on Sunday, then I might be inclined to do such a run for maybe £70, so not much more than Uber. I'd be £45 better off than I would be if I'd declined the run. A different story, perhaps, at !1pm on Saturday night, when I'd generally hope to do a bit better with runs nearer clock.

Of course, apart from that there are other factors to consider. For example, how likely I think the fare is likely to cause trouble, or where exactly the drop off point is and how easy it is to get there. The most obvious run of that length here is Edinburgh city or the airport, which is mainly A roads at worst, but isn't straight motorway (a plus factor) or country roads (obviously a negative).

Likewise, a drop in the middle of Edinburgh at the rush hour isn't exactly something I relish, while a late night drop in a rural area is a different kettle of fish. But these are the kind of factors I might consider when pricing.

Of course, if a driver lives a fair distance away from the pick up point then that could also be a factor if the run effectively takes them home.

When I lived in Dundee I took this woman back there occasionally when she finished work in the early hours. I did it a bit cheaper than I normally would, because at that time I'd be going home anyway, and almost always without a fare. So basically it was getting paid for my trip home rather than going home for nowt.

Of course, the Uber fare here is a different matter entirely, particularly as I think their commission rate is 25%. So £50 net, or maybe £25 profit, or £12.50/hour.

Which is obviously a lot to some people in low paid jobs, not worth getting out of bed for others.

But even though I don't have to pay commission, I wouldn't be doing the run for that price, particularly on a Saturday night, although I'm not sure how Uber works in terms of refusals etc. Maybe they don't like doing such runs, but just take it on the chin knowing they'll be earning a higher profit margin at other times.

But that's the thing with profit margins in the trade - it's not that so much as the time involved in earning the profit that has to be considered, which goes back to my factor number 2.

If profit margin was all that mattered then drivers would be falling over themselves to do these jobs that only go a few hundred yards and only last a minute or two - you're maybe earning the equivalent of £10/mile, with the like of fuel consumed being a minimal amount.

But despite the huge profit margin, I don't know any driver who likes such fares, possibly because they've maybe waited 45 minutes on the rank for it, and once they're back face at least the same wait for the next job.

Bottom line, though, is that in a low wage economy people are willing to work for, er, low wages.

In fact what often surprises me is that I can still get a clocked run of about £40 for 14 miles at all (one I did to Dundee last night, for example).


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 Post subject: Re: Poober prices
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:35 am 
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StuartW wrote:
roythebus wrote:
Fare £100

Running cost is 102miles x 0.45p per mile = £45.90

Wages @ say £10/hour 2 hours x £10 = £20

Profit £34.10

So not too bad after all.


Can't work out why you're double counting here?

If it's a self-employed driver scenario (ie the vast majority) then it's a profit rather than a wage, although they're roughly the same thing - a wage generally refers to a fixed sum per hour, while profit obviously varies.

So the profit in actual fact is about £54, thus the equivalent is £27 per hour, so a very good return by most people's standards, which in turn is why many drivers would do it for a whole lot less.

And even then I suspect a lot of drivers won't consider their costs in terms of an average per mile (and I'd guess that for most drivers 45p/mile is on the high side).

Instead, they'll possibly think more in terms of two factors:

1 What is the additional cost of doing the run? Some costs (most obviously licensing and insurance) are fixed, so it wouldn't cost any more to do the run. The most obvious variable cost is fuel, say £12 for the round trip here.

I suspect the additional cost in terms of wear and tear etc would be roughly the same as fuel, but for easy counting let's say £13, so the additional cost of doing the run is £25. Thus the profit is £75, or £37.50 per hour :shock:

2 The other major factor is to consider what the driver would be doing otherwise. So if it was last thing at night on Sunday, then I might be inclined to do such a run for maybe £70, so not much more than Uber. I'd be £45 better off than I would be if I'd declined the run. A different story, perhaps, at !1pm on Saturday night, when I'd generally hope to do a bit better with runs nearer clock.

Of course, apart from that there are other factors to consider. For example, how likely I think the fare is likely to cause trouble, or where exactly the drop off point is and how easy it is to get there. The most obvious run of that length here is Edinburgh city or the airport, which is mainly A roads at worst, but isn't straight motorway (a plus factor) or country roads (obviously a negative).

Likewise, a drop in the middle of Edinburgh at the rush hour isn't exactly something I relish, while a late night drop in a rural area is a different kettle of fish. But these are the kind of factors I might consider when pricing.

Of course, if a driver lives a fair distance away from the pick up point then that could also be a factor if the run effectively takes them home.

When I lived in Dundee I took this woman back there occasionally when she finished work in the early hours. I did it a bit cheaper than I normally would, because at that time I'd be going home anyway, and almost always without a fare. So basically it was getting paid for my trip home rather than going home for nowt.

Of course, the Uber fare here is a different matter entirely, particularly as I think their commission rate is 25%. So £50 net, or maybe £25 profit, or £12.50/hour.

Which is obviously a lot to some people in low paid jobs, not worth getting out of bed for others.

But even though I don't have to pay commission, I wouldn't be doing the run for that price, particularly on a Saturday night, although I'm not sure how Uber works in terms of refusals etc. Maybe they don't like doing such runs, but just take it on the chin knowing they'll be earning a higher profit margin at other times.

But that's the thing with profit margins in the trade - it's not that so much as the time involved in earning the profit that has to be considered, which goes back to my factor number 2.

If profit margin was all that mattered then drivers would be falling over themselves to do these jobs that only go a few hundred yards and only last a minute or two - you're maybe earning the equivalent of £10/mile, with the like of fuel consumed being a minimal amount.

But despite the huge profit margin, I don't know any driver who likes such fares, possibly because they've maybe waited 45 minutes on the rank for it, and once they're back face at least the same wait for the next job.

Bottom line, though, is that in a low wage economy people are willing to work for, er, low wages.

In fact what often surprises me is that I can still get a clocked run of about £40 for 14 miles at all (one I did to Dundee last night, for example).

The problem with doing cheap runs is when the same person wants the same job at a time when you would need to do it at full fare.

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 Post subject: Re: Poober prices
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:50 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
My experience of this wonderful trade of ours is that someone will always do it cheaper than you.

Doesn't bother me anymore. If punters want the Sussex mobile they know what they are getting.

I wont mug them off price wise, but I will not work for peanuts.

The only time I do it a little cheaper is if I've got an airport pick up I then ring a couple of mates who do 100s of the bloody things and help them out with one of their cheapo take ups.

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 Post subject: Re: Poober prices
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:57 am 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 5:33 am
Posts: 4884
Quote:
The problem with doing cheap runs is when the same person wants the same job at a time when you would need to do it at full fare.

Indeed, but that's more of an operator's/proprietor's problem than the more grassroots drivers I was talking about.

And Uber have a way of dealing with that particular problem - surge pricing :wink:

Many happy returns, though =D>


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