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UK cab trade debate and advice
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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:25 am 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
grandad wrote:
westgatelad wrote:
I will gladly give my datahead to HMRC. (Seen as it is less than a mile from my house) I will even drop it in for them.

I can’t fudge the difference in trend from my years as a driver to this years so far.

I simply can’t fiddle reality.

You don't have to do anything with HMRC. They will automatically calculate and pay you 80% of your average monthly profit for the last 3 years up to the end of February 2020.


what if i dont want it?

Give it to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:12 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
grandad wrote:
westgatelad wrote:
I will gladly give my datahead to HMRC. (Seen as it is less than a mile from my house) I will even drop it in for them.

I can’t fudge the difference in trend from my years as a driver to this years so far.

I simply can’t fiddle reality.

You don't have to do anything with HMRC. They will automatically calculate and pay you 80% of your average monthly profit for the last 3 years up to the end of February 2020.


what if i dont want it?



Your on the hardcard,it is if you qualify automatically put in your bank account.


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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:53 pm 
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grandad wrote:
You don't have to do anything with HMRC. They will automatically calculate and pay you 80% of your average monthly profit for the last 3 years up to the end of February 2020.

No.

They'll automatically *contact you*, but you then have to make a claim. Note the following, and the highlighted words in particular.

The Government's press notice states:

The UK Government wrote:
Cleaners, plumbers, electricians, musicians, hairdressers and many other self-employed people who are eligible for the new scheme will be able to apply directly to HMRC for the taxable grant, using a simple online form...


The UK Government wrote:
HMRC will identify eligible taxpayers and contact them directly with guidance on how to apply.


The Government's more specific advice (which I posted in full in the news section) states:

The UK Government wrote:
HMRC will contact you if you are eligible for the scheme and invite you to apply online.


One of the conditions of eligibility is that:

The UK Government wrote:
You can apply if you’re a self-employed individual...and you:

...have lost trading profits due to COVID-19


I made the point here and in the other thread that it's not clear what evidence HMRC will require to demonstrate that you have "lost trading profits", and how that's attributable to Covid-19.

They may require you just to tick a box online - note that the Government states above that the process involves a 'simple online form'.

Maybe something more detailed will be required. I don't know. I suspect most applications will just be rubber-stamped, but that some applicants will be required to provide more proof. That's the way these things work normally.

Some, such as the hairdressers mentioned by the Government will be self-evident. Barber shops and hair salons have been ordered to close.

Also self-evident for the taxi trade, in my opinion, but there may be those who *haven't* lost profits, as I said earlier.

But remember that HMRC will be dealing with *millions* of applications, and maybe a quarter million or more from the taxi trade alone. (Using the word 'taxi' in the loose, everyday sense.) HMRC staff are not working the ranks or from an office or app. They might want proof that applicants for the grant satisfy the relevant criteria. There will be widespread fraud. Note that, for those submitting late tax returns, the Government says HMRC will "risk assess" applicants "in the usual way".

I made the remark that press reports on the affect on the trade nationally might be useful to cite in evidence if HMRC asks for proof of lost profits. Unlikely, but you never know, and I suspect at least *some* applicants will be asked to provide more proof than the vast majority.

That's all.


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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:55 pm 
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heathcote wrote:
Your on the hardcard,it is if you qualify automatically put in your bank account.

Eh?

If Wanna doesn't want the grant then he doesn't have to apply for it.

Simples :-o


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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:31 pm 
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Posts: 22380
Location: A City near Birmingham
StuartW wrote:
heathcote wrote:
Your on the hardcard,it is if you qualify automatically put in your bank account.

Eh?

If Wanna doesn't want the grant then he doesn't have to apply for it.

Simples :-o


*touch wood*... (cos i dont trust councils) im £60/week BETTER off while being paid NOT to work (no fuel to buy), and as i am not doing anything for the community by way of volunteering, nor working (as i am 65/T2 diabetic/1 year in from a heart attack) i shall make a charity contribution to a local hospice and dog rescue charity.

we are not going out other than 1 dog walk a day (or they might eat us)

Tesco deliver (to the front step) and ive sprayed Dettol over the garden gate, drains and outside doors


Stay safe guys

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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:18 pm 
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Quote:
Maybe something more detailed will be required. I don't know. I suspect most applications will just be rubber-stamped, but that some applicants will be required to provide more proof. That's the way these things work normally.

I can't imagine any of this being detailed.

The gov need to deal with this in a matter of weeks, and they haven't got anywhere near enough folks working at HMRC to deal in detail with 5 million returns in that very short time scale.

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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:28 pm 
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Just found out that our business does not qualify for the £10,000 grant because we pay our business rates to our landlord and not directly to the Council. There must be 1,000s of small businesses that occupy offices within office blocks that are in the same boat.

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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:41 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Just found out that our business does not qualify for the £10,000 grant because we pay our business rates to our landlord and not directly to the Council. There must be 1,000s of small businesses that occupy offices within office blocks that are in the same boat.

But surely your landlord qualifies?

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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:56 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I can't imagine any of this being detailed.

Probably not. On the other hand, I really can't imagine the Government sending out several thousands of pounds each to several million people merely on the strength of ticking a box on a website.

And, as per how these things normally work, a small proportion of applicants may be required to submit something more concrete. They may be chosen randomly, or perhaps risk assessed by some criteria that isn't made public.

So my point was merely a suggestion as regards something that could be cited in evidence if an applicant is challenged by HMRC.

And, as Grandad's experience with the rates shows, officialdom is always good at making these things sound straightforward, but in reality they're a different beast entirely.

It's a few decades since I've tried to claim any kind of benefits, but anyone who's ever had to fill in a claimant form will know it's not an easy and straightforward process. And, of course, seems it's a lot more difficult now.

Don't think this scheme will be quite as onerous and exacting for us, but I doubt it'll be as straightforward as many are assuming either.

Sussex wrote:
The gov need to deal with this in a matter of weeks, and they haven't got anywhere near enough folks working at HMRC to deal in detail with 5 million returns in that very short time scale.

Indeed, and I think I read that 5,000 Department for Work and Pensions staff are being drafted in to deal with all this kind of stuff?

But all makes you wonder what the DWP staff are doing in more normal times :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:08 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
I really can't imagine the Government sending out several thousands of pounds each to several million people merely on the strength of ticking a box on a website.


why not.......they already do much the same for Universal Credit, Tax Credits and (for EU national) Child Benefits where the children are not even in the country...

at least this "80%" is to be included in income for the tax year and taxed

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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:18 pm 
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wouldn’t the 5 million tax
returns that cover this not be filed in April 2021? And if after shutting all pubs restaurants theatres shops,no tourist coming ,planes grounded,people told to stay in there home.they still need proof that the taxi trade has crashed they must be off there rockers


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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:51 pm 
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Posts: 230
I live about a mile from where all of our tax returns get processed. I pick lads and lasses up who have and still do work there for years.

The place is deserted. Most of the staff have kept away and loads of them are reading from a pre written notice about tax and the virus as they are working in departments they don’t usually work.

A few are working from home with a laptop. So when u ring up you are probably going to get through to some bloke sitting on his sofa with a can of beer and his yfronts and slippers on.

They are struggling. They are behind. So me trying to justify loss of earning when looking out the window at what is going on is showing a NAILED ON CERT that we aren’t making our last three assessment figures.

Tell me one person who is that is actually at work on ranks or from an office.

I’m lucky enough these past 8 days to be 33% down at the end of a ten hour shift.

I know of lads who are becoming mentally burnt out from lack of punters.

Will I claim the full 3 months if it is offered?

Yes.

But my tax return will be filed accordingly and I will pay my over/under stamp and tax as I should.


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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:38 am 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
Just found out that our business does not qualify for the £10,000 grant because we pay our business rates to our landlord and not directly to the Council. There must be 1,000s of small businesses that occupy offices within office blocks that are in the same boat.

But surely your landlord qualifies?

I very much doubt it. Our office is in a very large business park with over 100 businesses renting offices. The rateable value of the whole site must be well over the £51,000 threshold to qualify for help.

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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:34 pm 
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Final word on this in the meantime. As I said at the outset, doubt it'll be more than a box-ticking exercise for the vast majority, but if HMRC ask you to evidence that you've lost business due to Covid-19 then claiming that you know some HMRC employees or saying that they're 'bonkers' to ask the question just wouldn't cut the mustard :roll:

That's not how it works. The vast majority of the time HMRC just rubber-stamp tax returns etc, but if they start asking questions, and ask you to jump, you just reply 'How high?' :oops:

I've worked as a tax practitioner (back when HMRC was split between the Inland Revenue and HM Customs & Excise), so know slightly more than most about how it all works.

I've also known people in the trade who've been subject to formal HMRC investigations (as I'm sure many on here will). It ain't a pretty sight, either in terms of personal stress or the resultant tax bill.

In fact every year my accountant asks me to take out insurance against the possibility of an HMRC investigation, but I've never bothered O:)

(Of course, if you're honest then it shouldn't be a problem in terms of having to pay more tax, but I suspect still a very worrying and stressful experience, which could go on for weeks and months.)

Anyway, my point about taking note of press articles etc in terms of evidence was little more than a throwaway line for my own benefit - anyone else can just ignore me if they want.

It's not *me* nor the readers on here that you might have to convince, nor anyone else in the trade, all of whom know the score.

It's a faceless individual in an office somewhere, who may be on the lookout for fraud, or are given a quota or whatever to provide evidence or investigate further.

StuartW wrote:
And, for example, if you take the headline and strapline to the Disco Dave piece at face value then he wouldn't be eligible for the grant, in my opinion. Anyone else agree or disagree?


Leeds' 'Disco Dave' Uber driver forced to quit as fares plummet to just £3 a day

Yasar Aziz, who is known to customers as 'Disco Dave', has regretfully had to give up being a taxi driver due to the coronavirus pandemic

One of the conditions for the grant is that you "intend to continue to trade in the tax year 2020-21".

Looking at that headline (and strapline below), it could be viewed as saying that Dave has given up for good before the 2020-21 tax year (which started a few days ago on 6 April, thus a few days after the article), so he wouldn't be eligible for the grant.

Of course, I suspect that Dave's intention *is* to resume driving after it's all over, but it's another potential trap that could catch out the unwary.

I mean, I'm an independent HC driver. The car is sitting outside, and I could go out to work in the next five minutes if I wanted to. And I'm not doing another job in the meantime.

But suppose you were tied to an office, have handed your radio back in, handed the car back to whoever's providing it, and taken another job.

As I said, unlikely that many drivers would be caught out by this if they genuinely intend starting back in the trade, but you never know...

The chap in Inverness may be a tad cynical and opportunistic, but he used the term 'mothballed' in terms of his cars, which is probably bang on in terms of claiming the grant. (A bit like the other word of the moment - 'furloughed' - which I'd never heard of before all this kicked off. But it's similar to 'mothballed', although it's more about employees than the self-employed.)


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 Post subject: Re: Handbacks
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:33 pm 
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Location: A City near Birmingham
westgatelad wrote:
There isn’t a hc or ph driver out there making anywhere near the taxable threshold right now.


what not even with 100% school payments till july 1st and no fuel,tyres,servicing or food/drink from subway to buy?

:badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:

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