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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:40 pm 
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Chris the Fish wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
No...

Read the regs

Yes...

The link in your subsequent post is for LA mandated or maintained systems where they (or a Company on their behalf) are the Data Controller.

I am Registered with the ICO (not Licensed) and therefore I am the Data Controller, not the Local Authority.



system must still be encrypted though a dashcam doesnt cut it

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:07 pm 
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In-vehicle visual and audio

Q. 26. The draft statutory guidance recommends that licensing
authorities should carefully consider potential public safety
benefits and potential privacy issues when considering mandating
that taxis and PHVs have CCTV installed (paragraphs 2.104 to
2.109). Do you agree with this recommendation?


The matter of CCTV and audio in taxis has been the subject of lengthy
consideration at the ICO and we have engaged closely with relevant
stakeholders on this issue. The Commissioner published a blog back in
August 2018 setting out her concerns and view on this issue.
She fully appreciates the public safety and safeguarding benefits that can
be achieved for mandating the installation of CCTV in taxis and PHV’s.
However, in order to comply with their obligations under data protection
legislation, it is important that licensing authorities understand the need
to balance their responsibilities to protect its drivers and the public with
the privacy rights of those individuals.
Consideration of individuals’ rights and potential privacy implications
should be integral to any installation of CCTV/surveillance system. The
GDPR requires you to put in place appropriate technical and
organisational measures to implement the data protection principles and
safeguard individual rights. This is known as ‘data protection by design
and by default’. Data protection by design is about considering data
protection and privacy issues upfront in everything you do. It can help
you ensure that you comply with the GDPR’s fundamental principles and
requirements, and forms part of the focus on accountability.
Data Privacy Impact Assessments (DPIAs) form part of the ‘data
protection by design and by default’ and accountability approach under
GDPR. Article 35 requires organisations to carry out a DPIA before
carrying out types of processing likely to result in a high risk to the rights
and freedoms of individuals in specified circumstances, such as intrusive
surveillance systems.
The Commissioner welcomes the detailed references that are made in the
statutory guidance in relation to data protection, individual rights, privacy
considerations and undertaking robust DPIAs.
The Commissioner expressed in her blog on this issue that we had
concerns in relation to the approaches being adopted by some councils.
Our concerns are not so much about the mandated use of CCTV while the
vehicle is being used as a licensed taxi/PHV. Our main concern is where
an authorities policy requires that CCTV is operational continuously,
meaning the cameras are also operating when the vehicle is being used
privately by the driver. The Commissioner’s view on this matter is that, in
most cases, this is unlikely to be fair and lawful processing of personal
data. It would be extremely difficult to evidence the justification and
proportionality for this approach and as such is likely to breach data
protection and privacy law. We welcome the Department’s support of this
view which is acknowledged at 2.108 of the guidance.

Q. 27 The draft statutory guidance recommends that CCTV
recordings in taxis and PHVs should be encrypted and accessible
only by licensing authority officials (if acting a data controller),
the police or when subject to a data subject access request
(paragraph 2.114). Do you agree with this recommendation?


As highlighted above, the GDPR requires you to implement appropriate
technical and organisational measures to ensure you process personal
data securely. Article 32 of the GDPR includes encryption as an example
of an appropriate technical measure, depending on the nature and risks of
your processing activities. The ICO has seen numerous incidents of
personal data being subject to unauthorised or unlawful processing, loss,
damage or destruction. In many cases, the damage and distress caused
by these incidents may have been reduced or even avoided had the
personal data been encrypted. It is possible that, where data is lost or
destroyed and it was not encrypted, regulatory action may be pursued by
the ICO (depending on the context of each incident). Therefore, the
Commissioner welcomes the recommendation that the recordings should
be encrypted.
In terms of responsibility for the data/footage that is collected (who is the
controller), this will depend on who determines the purposes for which the
data are processed and the means of processing. The Commissioner has
indicated that if a licensing authority has a mandatory policy for the
installation of CCTV in taxis, it is likely, in most circumstances, that they
would be the data controller, and welcomes the statutory guidance’s
support for this view at 2.108. From a security and compliance
perspective, it is entirely appropriate that the footage can only be
accessed by those with legitimate grounds to do so (ie. where the
licensing authority is a controller, the driver cannot access/tamper with
the footage). The Commissioner also welcomes this recommendation at

2.115.
We are pleased to note the recommendation at 2.116 in relation to
making passengers aware that CCTV is operating. This is a key
transparency requirement under GDPR, which provides individuals with an
individual right to be informed about the use of their personal data. The
ICO advises that it is often most effective to provide privacy information
to people using a combination of different techniques such as layering. It
is important that the signage in the vehicles inform the individual who the
data controller is and where they can go to make a subject access request
or find out more information, such as the purposes for their information
being processed, retention periods and who the information may be
shared with. The guidance does make reference to this kind of layered
approach but it may benefit from highlighting that the ICO has further
guidance on privacy information and the right to be informed on its
website. We also feel that additional reference to audio could be made
here in relation to informing passengers when audio is in operation. There
is a brief reference to this at 2.107, but given that audio is considered to
be more privacy intrusive, the importance of informing individuals when
an audio recording is being made could be further reinforced at 2.116.
Information Commissioner’s Office
17 April 2019

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm 
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Found these darn sarf

https://www.radiorelay.co.uk/taxi--mobile-cctv-systems

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:04 am 
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I have a Vantrue N2 Pro Dual 1080P Dash Cam it’s pretty good


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:48 am 
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mancityfan wrote:
I have a Vantrue N2 Pro Dual 1080P Dash Cam it’s pretty good



not CCTV though is it

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:32 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
mancityfan wrote:
I have a Vantrue N2 Pro Dual 1080P Dash Cam it’s pretty good



not CCTV though is it


Well I guess it’s a dash cam, do dash cams not make good cctv?
Enlighten me what’s the difference.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:26 pm 
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Image

The Vantrue N2 Pro Dual lens cam also has a 'cabin cam' as well as the standard dashcam, and this image from Amazon suggests that to all intents and purposes it's a CCTV system.

Interesting that Nextbase (which I'm assuming is the market leader for dashcams) does three different back-facing add-on modules for its standard dashcams:

1 The 'rear window cam', which is mounted in the rear window. Obviously that wouldn't make the system CCTV.

2 A 'cabin view camera'. That's similar to the Vantrue above, thus that would make it a CCTV system from the regulatory perspective, I would imagine.

3 The other module is maybe the more tricky one, though. It's mounted on the front windscreen as well, but is called a 'rear view camera', and it's pointing at the road behind the car rather than on the cabin and passengers.

But it would certainly catch any centre back seat passenger (who in turn would block the view of the road behind), although that would depend on the make of car and where precisely the camera was pointing.

You can get an idea of what's going on from the graphics here:

https://www.nextbase.com/en-gb/modules/

Another thing of course is that I think most dashcams can record audio, so even if it's not pointing inwards there could still be a regulatory dimension if the audio is enabled.

Incidentally, looks like Nextbase doing 25% off this weekend, so worth a look if anyone thinking of buying. A mid-range cam with a rear-facing module (all three rear-facing modules are the same price) and hard-wire kit (essential for a taxi, I suspect) would be around £150, so cheaper than from Halfords or Amazon.

(Of course, there are no doubt cheaper and better dashcams around, but no doubt there's a reason Nextbase seem to shift so much kit.)

https://www.nextbase.com/en-gb/


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:49 pm 
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Quote:
The Vantrue N2 Pro Dual lens cam also has a 'cabin cam' as well as the standard dashcam, and this image from Amazon suggests that to all intents and purposes it's a CCTV system.



But it ISNT an encrypted CCTV is it

Its not what councils demand

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:36 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
Quote:
The Vantrue N2 Pro Dual lens cam also has a 'cabin cam' as well as the standard dashcam, and this image from Amazon suggests that to all intents and purposes it's a CCTV system.


But it ISNT an encrypted CCTV is it

Its not what councils demand

Yes, that was my point, basically, and I was agreeing with you. I think 8-[

My point, essentially, was that if a dashcam also videos inside the cabin then as far as licensing and regulation is concerned then it's an internal CCTV camera.

So if you've got a Nextbase add-on module pointing rearwards then it's OK if it's the one mounted on the back window, because that's just a rear-facing dashcam facing *out* of the vehicle.

If it's the cabin-view add-on then it's basically CCTV.

And I suspect the Nextbase add-on that points out the back window from the front screen would also be classed as CCTV because it will film back seat passengers, and also maybe catch the front seat passengers entering and exiting the vehicle.

Basically, I'm guessing that any camera which photographs people *inside* the vehicle will be regulated as CCTV. Standard dashcams pointing *outside* the vehicle won't be regulated.

But I'm not exactly sure what the legal requirements are if your council isn't specifically regulating CCTV. Suspect there are thousands of drivers in the UK with cameras that would technically be classed as CCTV, but their council isn't specifically regulating them, and they won't be encrypted, and they won't be registered as a data controller, or whatever.

Whether or not that's required I'm not sure. Maybe Sussex will know - he's usually quite up to speed with this kind of thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:46 pm 
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Chris the Fish wrote:
Sussex wrote:
I think if you have a data controller license you can have dashcams pointing inwards.

You can. I am Registered (it isn't a Licence), I do.
:p

So I'm guessing you're saying that if you have a CCTV system or a dashcam facing into the vehicle then you have to be registered with the ICO (assuming your council isn't regulating them)?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:07 pm 
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Quote:
But it ISNT an encrypted CCTV is it

If you are the data controller then you can password protect any download.

Which is what they mean by encryption.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:10 pm 
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Quote:
So I'm guessing you're saying that if you have a CCTV system or a dashcam facing into the vehicle then you have to be registered with the ICO (assuming your council isn't regulating them)?

Most CCTV is data controlled by the installer or a firm that you work for/with.

However if someone is an independent taxi driver they can self data control as long as they are on the ICO register.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:27 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Quote:
So I'm guessing you're saying that if you have a CCTV system or a dashcam facing into the vehicle then you have to be registered with the ICO (assuming your council isn't regulating them)?

Most CCTV is data controlled by the installer or a firm that you work for/with.

However if someone is an independent taxi driver they can self data control as long as they are on the ICO register.



But don't most LA's insist that THEY are the data controller

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:00 pm 
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Quote:
But don't most LA's insist that THEY are the data controller

No.

The ICO would prefer the LA to be the data controller, but in most councils they delegate it out, or haven't got a f***ing clue what the rules/laws are.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:49 am 
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Sussex wrote:
Quote:
But don't most LA's insist that THEY are the data controller

No.

The ICO would prefer the LA to be the data controller, but in most councils they delegate it out, or haven't got a f***ing clue what the rules/laws are.



If L/As were to be the data controller I would expect them to purchase and pay for the system to be put in the vehicle also I would expect them to insure the equipment.
No one would be controlling anything I purchase other than me.


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