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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:26 am 
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Taxidriver11 wrote:
Why would you register for self employment with HMRC to get an UTR if your not going to be self employed,I guess you could just put your NI number down and explain on the form that you don’t actually drive for a living



Under the proposed rules you would not be granted a drivers badge.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:58 pm 
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It has been the case in Edinburgh that the renewal form asks for your UTR, but the licence holder who dose not drive, is not required to supply one, there is no requirement for a taxi driver license holder to actually drive one, it may be the case that such license holders details may be passed to HMRC for further enquires but I’ve never heard of the anyone I know who holds a licence but dose not drive being harassed or investigated as a result


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:55 pm 
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Taxidriver11 wrote:
It has been the case in Edinburgh that the renewal form asks for your UTR, but the licence holder who dose not drive, is not required to supply one, there is no requirement for a taxi driver license holder to actually drive one, it may be the case that such license holders details may be passed to HMRC for further enquires but I’ve never heard of the anyone I know who holds a licence but dose not drive being harassed or investigated as a result



that sounds like a loophole that needs fixing!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:10 pm 
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I don’t think it’s a loophole as such, why would holding a drivers licence just in case you need to fall back on it be considered wrong, obtaining a drivers licence in Edinburgh is a lengthy process, I can see the issue of moonlighting drivers not paying tax but for the ones who hold it as a back up in case they loose their lobs is surely a smart thing to do


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:28 pm 
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Taxidriver11 wrote:
What if you don’t drive for a living but hold a license for back up incase you loose your job, you wouldn’t have a tax utr

I think there will be exemptions for folks like you, in the same way they will have to cater for taxi/PH drivers that are employed via the PAYE system.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:42 pm 
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Having questioned the Licensing department on the subject it appears to be the case that question can be left blank of N/A written in its space, it’s not a requirement under the civic government act that you need to be driving to obtain a license so the licence cannot be refused on that basis, so if not driving no need for an UTR


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:50 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I think there will be exemptions for folks like you, in the same way they will have to cater for taxi/PH drivers that are employed via the PAYE system.


Employed/PAYE was covered in the article.

One for peoples thoughts,if you have a driver on your hackney carriage they are your employee where does this scenario fit in as most proprietors whether right or wrong treat them as self employed.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:16 pm 
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In Edinburgh all drivers are considered self employed


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:32 pm 
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Taxidriver11 wrote:
Why would you register for self employment with HMRC to get an UTR if your not going to be self employed,I guess you could just put your NI number down and explain on the form that you don’t actually drive for a living

You dont need to register as self employed to get a UTR. Empolyees need one as well to be able to check their tax account online.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:14 pm 
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I’m not sure that’s an UTR, as far as I’m aware an UTR is only supplied to people who are self employed, each individual is issued with personnel tax reference number but that is not the one asked for on the forms

https://www.gov.uk/find-lost-utr-number


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:43 pm 
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Taxidriver11 wrote:
I don’t think it’s a loophole as such, why would holding a drivers licence just in case you need to fall back on it be considered wrong, obtaining a drivers licence in Edinburgh is a lengthy process, I can see the issue of moonlighting drivers not paying tax but for the ones who hold it as a back up in case they loose their lobs is surely a smart thing to do

Certainly plenty of *former* drivers who will keep their badge in the drawer in case they need it in future.

But can't see many going through what you call a 'lengthy process' to get a badge without intending to drive in the first place. To that degree I suspect the vast majority of dormant badges will have been held by those who actually did use them in the first place, thus should have a UTR.

Incidentally, apparently in Glasgow they'll revoke your badge if you don't use it for three months, thus there at least no one should be renewing a badge without a UTR.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:58 pm 
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I take yer point on going through the hassle and not using it but I do know of a few who have and have never driven, I’m surprised to hear the Glasgow situation as it nowhere states that you have to drive in the civic government Scotland act to obtain one, Maybe there is something written into the council conditions but I suspect if challenged in court it would not be denied


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:23 am 
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Taxidriver11 wrote:
I take yer point on going through the hassle and not using it but I do know of a few who have and have never driven

I've no doubt that such badges exist. For example, some may have got a badge but then changed their mind about actually driving, for whatever reason. I'm just guessing that very few will have embarked on the process with the sole intention of only using the badge as a fall back.

Incidentally, did you read the PHTM article about it that Sussex posted in another thread? Certainly can't see anything in it that would cover your scenario, but I suspect it's just a thing that HMRC haven't considered, so your particular issue may be ironed out before it all goes live.

https://content.yudu.com/web/43sy4/0A43 ... gin=reader

TaxiDriver11 wrote:
I’m surprised to hear the Glasgow situation as it nowhere states that you have to drive in the civic government Scotland act to obtain one, Maybe there is something written into the council conditions but I suspect if challenged in court it would not be denied


A recent press report about a PH badge applicant said:

Quote:
It was also pointed out that once awarded a licence, Mr Najman would have to use it within three months or hand it back to the committee.


That was about someone who was involved with a cannabis farm, and who was actually denied a badge.

But there was a press report a couple of years ago about this very subject. However, as I said at the time, I suspect it's just been misreported, and it's all actually about plates where no vehicle has been presented for testing, but as usual the press reports confuse badges and plates, or effectively treat them as the same.

So although the report on the cannabis farm case makes it sound like it's the badge they were talking about being handed back after three months if unused, I wouldn't be surprised if the point was actually about plates.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32882


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:32 am 
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I think the case your quoting refers to a taxi license as opposed to a taxi drivers licence


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:37 am 
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Taxidriver11 wrote:
I think the case your quoting refers to a taxi license as opposed to a taxi drivers licence

Yes, as I said, I think it's just been misreported in the press by confusing badges and plates. So nothing new there, then :roll:

Incidentally, I think you're correct about an employee not requiring a UTR - the UTR is for those paying tax under self-assessment, while employees come under the PAYE system.

However, I'm not sure if there's a permanent number system for employees, as opposed to PAYE refernce numbers for the *employer*, and individual but non-permanent payroll numbers for individual employees.

I think the main permanent reference for employees will be their National Insurance number.


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