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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:00 pm 
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Here is one for all you Hackney people out there.
When you Council approve a tariff change do you just have the meter updated or do you also have to have the vehicle do the measured mile?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:27 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Here is one for all you Hackney people out there.
When you Council approve a tariff change do you just have the meter updated or do you also have to have the vehicle do the measured mile?


There is no reason to do a measured mile when updating the tariff.

However, your licensing department may insist on it, and allow you to pay for the privilege.

Is a Meterman coming to you, or are you going to him?

He should be able to give you a certificate to give to your LO.

For the uninitiated, a taximeter is first calibrated, to measure the pulse rate, and that is set into the vehicle upon first installation. This is then accurate for as long as it is in that vehicle. Then the tariff is installed, and that can be changed as often is required, and will be accurate, providing the calibration has not been altered, or tampered with. That is why they are sealed.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:00 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Here is one for all you Hackney people out there.
When you Council approve a tariff change do you just have the meter updated or do you also have to have the vehicle do the measured mile?



calibration is usually checked by the person doing the tariff upgrade the vehicles locally are checked as part of their compliance tests which are every 6 months anyway but that only applies to our council

In the past usually there is a random check by the enforcement officers to make sure the meters are right but other LA's may be different

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:20 pm 
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All our meters are checked by the council in the few days after the tariff change comes into force.

Obviously some LAs allow the meter agents to certify the update, but that's certainly not universal.

I've got an older meter, and each figure has to be keyed in by the meter agent. So even one incorrect digit can make a huge difference. For example, if the flagfall is 1,000 yards, but he keys in 100 and forgets the last digit then it'll start clocking up 900 yards early :-o

He updates the newer meters using computer software supplied by the meter manufacturer.

That will be more reliable, but again depends on the software update using the correct numbers.

Can't find the article now, but remember when the meters in Edinburgh were miscalibrated and they weren't showing the correct rate at Christmas and New Year :shock:

And because it was Christmas, it was difficult to get the meters changed to show the correct tariff...

And while Jimbo is correct about calibrations etc, there can potentially be issues with tyre pressures and tyre wear etc, or even wheel size, potentially. The difference between a new tyre and one worn to the limit can make the difference between a pass and fail, or so my meter agent tells me :?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:39 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
All our meters are checked by the council in the few days after the tariff change comes into force.

Obviously some LAs allow the meter agents to certify the update, but that's certainly not universal.

I've got an older meter, and each figure has to be keyed in by the meter agent. So even one incorrect digit can make a huge difference. For example, if the flagfall is 1,000 yards, but he keys in 100 and forgets the last digit then it'll start clocking up 900 yards early :-o

He updates the newer meters using computer software supplied by the meter manufacturer.

That will be more reliable, but again depends on the software update using the correct numbers.

Can't find the article now, but remember when the meters in Edinburgh were miscalibrated and they weren't showing the correct rate at Christmas and New Year :shock:

And because it was Christmas, it was difficult to get the meters changed to show the correct tariff...

And while Jimbo is correct about calibrations etc, there can potentially be issues with tyre pressures and tyre wear etc, or even wheel size, potentially. The difference between a new tyre and one worn to the limit can make the difference between a pass and fail, or so my meter agent tells me :?


Jeez, are you still using a clockwork meter?

I had a Cygnus 400 in my last cab, vintage 1986! Which could no longer be updated as the software was no longer available. When I bought my new cab a year ago I had a new Cygnus installed. The tosh about worn tyres low pressure making a difference is minuscule, and in any case the tolerance of +/- 3% will easily allow for that. Your council does allow a tolerance of +/- 3% don’t they?
Even my old meter was updated using a thumb key. Back in 1985 Pitt’s Nottingham had a box the size of my lunchbox (ahem!) to alter the rates. In 35 plus years, I have never seen the tariff entered manually. The pulse rate, obviously entered manually, and it never needs changing once it is reading accurately.

And the incorrect TARIFF was entered in Edinburgh, not an incorrect CALIBRATION. They are two different things, although one cannot work without the other.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:38 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Here is one for all you Hackney people out there.
When you Council approve a tariff change do you just have the meter updated or do you also have to have the vehicle do the measured mile?

Years ago each vehicle had to do the mile, or half a mile, or distance for first and second tick over.

Now our council does one car per meter company, and if that's ok then they allow them to update without doing the distance check.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:36 am 
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Jimbo wrote:
And the incorrect TARIFF was entered in Edinburgh, not an incorrect CALIBRATION. They are two different things, although one cannot work without the other.

I stand corrected, Jimbo. And I thought I was pedantic :roll:

So the Edinburgh meters were incorrectly programmed, not miscalibrated - is that OK? :roll:

Or were they not actually reprogrammed, but something else? :roll:

Next time anyone mentions recalibrating the meters on the rank I'll put them right :roll:

As for the council's tolerances, surely the point is that if you're close to the tolerance limit when calibrated, but you move from worn tyres to new tyres, or you were on new tyres when calibrated but they're now worn, then that could push you over the tolerance limit? :roll:

As for how the meter is reprogrammed/updated, or whatever, not entirely sure how you equate the methodology for that with whether or not the meter is 'clockwork' or not :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:37 am 
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The situation here is that the Council insisted on all the Hackneys re-doing the measured mile when the tariff was updated. They had arranged for one of the approved meter installers to come to Melton to do the job but they could only do the meters they installed. The other meter installer said that he couldn't come to Melton and all the vehicles would have to go to him and he would charge £25.00 because of the measured mile. The one coming to Melton was charging £20.00
When I was told of the measured mile being insisted on I immediately emailed the licensing team to ask why when this had never been asked for at a tariff change before and asked how the company coming to Melton were going to do this when there was no set measured mile in Melton. I was just told that the company were going to do the measured mile. I suggested that this was not required and I was certain that when big cities had a tariff change it would not be feasible for all the vehicles to do the measured mile due to the logistics but the Council insisted. I said that it was possible for many of the meters to be simply taken to Nottingham by one driver and re set "on the bench" because this had been done before but they said no.
So come the day for the change and many cars went to Nottingham and spent several hours in a queue waiting for their turn because the chap was on his own and had to close the workshop every time he had to do the measured mile. Meanwhile the company that came to Melton point blank refused to do a measured mile and said they had never agreed to this.
5 days later after our Council had spoken to whoever they spoke to I received a reply to say that drivers could pool together and just sent the meters. I pointed out that it was to late. So to rectify the mis match in the prices because some had paid the extra to have the measured mile The council decided that it was unfair that they had paid and the ones done in Melton Hadn't so to make it fair they have now insisted that the ones done in Melton must now attend the company base which is also in Nottingham and complete the measured mile. The drivers are, quite understandabley in my opinion, livid.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:48 am 
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Clowns.

Utter clowns. #-o

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:37 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
And the incorrect TARIFF was entered in Edinburgh, not an incorrect CALIBRATION. They are two different things, although one cannot work without the other.

I stand corrected, Jimbo. And I thought I was pedantic :roll:

So the Edinburgh meters were incorrectly programmed, not miscalibrated - is that OK? :roll:

Or were they not actually reprogrammed, but something else? :roll:

Next time anyone mentions recalibrating the meters on the rank I'll put them right :roll:

As for the council's tolerances, surely the point is that if you're close to the tolerance limit when calibrated, but you move from worn tyres to new tyres, or you were on new tyres when calibrated but they're now worn, then that could push you over the tolerance limit? :roll:

As for how the meter is reprogrammed/updated, or whatever, not entirely sure how you equate the methodology for that with whether or not the meter is 'clockwork' or not :roll:


Gosh, I appear to have ruffled your feathers. Oh dear, what a pity, never mind.

It’s hardly pedantry to point out there is a difference between calibration and a tariff change.

But if I were you, I wouldn’t ask your friendly Meterman to recalibrate your meter if what you really want is a tariff update. He might be a pedant too!

All scientific instruments need to be accurately calibrated before they can accurately measure anything.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:13 pm 
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How will they set up the measured mile ?Will it be on a straight road .....no corners or bands ..

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:26 pm 
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jimbo wrote:
Gosh, I appear to have ruffled your feathers. Oh dear, what a pity, never mind.

No feathers ruffled here, Jimbo, just my usual mildy sardonic approach and overuse of smilies. Doncha know my middle name is 'sarcasm' :badgrin:

My feathers are actually more ruffled by the disproportionate and indiscriminate use of the quote function [-(

And by those who don't double space their already quite long paragraphs - just press the return key TWICE :p

Jimbo wrote:
It’s hardly pedantry to point out there is a difference between calibration and a tariff change.

But if I were you, I wouldn’t ask your friendly Meterman to recalibrate your meter if what you really want is a tariff update. He might be a pedant too!

Couldn't for the life of me imagine asking my meterman for a 'recalibration' under any circumstances. I'd either be asking him for a new meter, or to reinstall my existing meter in another motor, in which case I wouldn't be using the term 'recalibration', for obvious reasons.

If I contacted him about a tariff update, chances are he'd know why I was contacting him, so wouldn't even have to ask him specifically. But if I had to specifically ask him I'd probably simply ask about the meter 'changes' or 'updates', or whatever, and he'd know precisely what I was talking about. If it was a non-routine fault then I'd just describe the fault in my non-expert terms.

Anyway, it's a long story and can't be bothered with it just now, but have had my current meter since 2006 in both my Passats, and my meterman supplied it for £10 second hand =D>


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:54 pm 
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MR T wrote:
How will they set up the measured mile ?Will it be on a straight road .....no corners or bands ..

And it's not just the measured mile, it's the second tick over as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:57 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
MR T wrote:
How will they set up the measured mile ?Will it be on a straight road .....no corners or bands ..

And it's not just the measured mile, it's the second tick over as well.


It isn’t. It really, really isn’t. It’s about the pulse rate, which can be set at any variable between 240, and 360,000. (Or something like) it’s a constant. If I didn’t know better, I could easily think that you lot are being deliberately obtuse.

Where is datamaster bill when you need him?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:12 am 
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jimbo wrote:
Sussex wrote:
MR T wrote:
How will they set up the measured mile ?Will it be on a straight road .....no corners or bands ..

And it's not just the measured mile, it's the second tick over as well.


It isn’t. It really, really isn’t. It’s about the pulse rate, which can be set at any variable between 240, and 360,000. (Or something like) it’s a constant. If I didn’t know better, I could easily think that you lot are being deliberately obtuse.

Where is datamaster bill when you need him?

I do not disagree with you

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