mancityfan wrote:
I have always known them as pirate taxis, but there also known in other parts as gypsy cabs, or jitney cabs
Not fake taxis....
or Bang Bus
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| Author: | grandad [ Mon Nov 11, 2024 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | touting by private hire vehicles |
Is there a specific definition of what constitutes touting by a private hire vehicle? |
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| Author: | mancityfan [ Mon Nov 11, 2024 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: touting by private hire vehicles |
I have always known them as pirate taxis, but there also known in other parts as gypsy cabs, or jitney cabs |
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: touting by private hire vehicles |
grandad wrote: Is there a specific definition of what constitutes touting by a private hire vehicle? "touting" (As regarding PHVs) seems to be "parked within sight of a public road" Though obviously I suppose, the same applies to out of area hacks Quote: Is taxi touting a criminal offence?
Taxi touting is a criminal offence under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. Sometimes referred to as pirating or flying, plying for hire in a public place or soliciting individuals to be passengers in your car is a level 4 offence, meaning the penalties should not exceed level 4.24 Sept 2024 |
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: touting by private hire vehicles |
mancityfan wrote: I have always known them as pirate taxis, but there also known in other parts as gypsy cabs, or jitney cabs Not fake taxis.... or Bang Bus |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: touting by private hire vehicles |
grandad wrote: Is there a specific definition of what constitutes touting by a private hire vehicle? There are dozens of judgments, but my rule of thumb is that if an ordinary person (the chappy on the Clapham Omnibus) views the vehicle parked as being a taxi that can immediately be hired, when in fact it's a PH, then that's touting. But that's me. How the courts would view it depends on a number of different variables, such as where the car was parked, whether it appeared to be a taxi, what interactions the driver had with the punter, etc. |
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| Author: | StuartW [ Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: touting by private hire vehicles |
Ah. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the usual touting/plying for hire conflation/confusion thing going on here. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but in a nutshell this is how I see it. No one in the trade can tout for passengers (unless maybe some kind of ride-sharing scenario, and I mean that in the conventional sense rather than the Uber bollocks - see the link to the relevant legislation below). Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 wrote: 167 Touting for hire car services. (1)Subject to the following provisions, it is an offence, in a public place, to solicit persons to hire vehicles to carry them as passengers. (2)Subsection (1) above does not imply that the soliciting must refer to any particular vehicle nor is the mere display of a sign on a vehicle that the vehicle is for hire soliciting within that subsection. Touting means 'soliciting' or 'importuning' (which is the word used in our Fife conditions, which I think is standard in Scotland), which is a proactive thing, essentially involving actively approaching customers in a public place, or maybe shouting at them from a passing car (which one HCD in St Andrews was reputed to do if he thought he saw a likely fare  )But neither HCDs nor PHDs can solicit. Plying for hire is a more passive activity, and simply involves the driver and vehicle plying for trade by their mere presence in a particular area (which seems to be what's alluded to in the subsection (2) exemption above). Of course, only HCs can legally ply for hire, and they must be in-area. So a PHV can neither tout/solicit nor ply for hire. An HC can ply for hire, but can't tout. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/19 ... taxi-touts |
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| Author: | roythebus [ Wed Nov 13, 2024 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: touting by private hire vehicles |
But I can do so in my car providing it is displaying a PSV operators licence and is on the list of vehicles authorised by the Traffic Commissioner. |
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| Author: | grandad [ Wed Nov 13, 2024 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: touting by private hire vehicles |
This is what I got from my council. Touting is covered under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 but it is not defined specifically. The Law Commission summarised it: It is important to distinguish between the everyday usage of the term “touting”, where what is really meant is illegal plying for hire, and the criminal offence which has a narrower and more specific meaning. The criminal offence of taxi touting consists of soliciting persons to hire vehicles to carry them as passengers. It is designed to tackle behaviour such as drivers shouting to prospective passengers and approaching people on the street, in particular outside transport hubs and entertainment venues. It can apply to licensed and unlicensed vehicles. Touting does not include the mere display of a sign stating that a vehicle is for hire. It is not enough that a vehicle is available for hire; there must be some form of invitation to a prospective hirer. Prior to 2003, local authorities brought prosecutions for touting to tackle problems of illegal plying for hire, but this ceased when the Administrative Court held that the scope of the offence was narrower. Although soliciting for business can be evidence of plying for hire, the two are not the same, and soliciting requires more than a vehicle simply waiting in the street. The essential difference is that, whilst illegally plying for hire is reactive, touting is proactive. |
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| Author: | StuartW [ Wed Nov 13, 2024 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: touting by private hire vehicles |
I'd forgotten that the Law Commission had some useful information on legal issues, caselaw etc. Maybe because I never actually got round to reading the final report. As I recall it the OFT's report also had an annex (Annex 1 or 2, as I recall it), which was basically a shortened/watered down version of the Button book (I'd guess). Although obviously that was over 20 years ago now, so is likely to be a bit out of date in some respects... |
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Wed Nov 13, 2024 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: touting by private hire vehicles |
is it not a fact that a hack may ONLY "tout" on a rank or take a flagdown, the rank being the only place they may park for business? |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Wed Nov 13, 2024 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: touting by private hire vehicles |
wannabeeahack wrote: is it not a fact that a hack may ONLY "tout" on a rank or take a flagdown, the rank being the only place they may park for business? No one is allowed to 'tout', although hackneys are permitted to 'ply' on approved ranks. |
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: touting by private hire vehicles |
Sussex wrote: wannabeeahack wrote: is it not a fact that a hack may ONLY "tout" on a rank or take a flagdown, the rank being the only place they may park for business? No one is allowed to 'tout', although hackneys are permitted to 'ply' on approved ranks. ok ply |
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