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| Author: | 187ums [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Zig Zags |
A mate got ticketed by the police for being on the edge of a zig zag at a crossing, anyone know how he can appeal against it? he reckons the policeman was a bit over zealous and he doesnot think the crossing was being impaired in anyway. Any advice? or does he just take the ticket and three points? |
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| Author: | rambo [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Take the points, it does not matter if the crossing was impaired in any way. In london now, we drop of on zig zags, this is because the council traffic wardens can't give you a ticket, only the police can. You have got more chance of seeing a council traffic warden than a policeman 
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| Author: | Stinky Pete [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thats right only a Police man can give you a ticket for parking on zig zag, but it is little known that a bus and or a taxi can stop [ie, fare paying passengers] on zig zags after the crossing. A few years ago we had a Taxi driver nicknamed as Forrest Gump dropped off some passenger on the zig zags after the crossing, he was booked straight away by the police Little it be known that this driver was ex policeman, he argued his case, he reffered to a book called Bradshaws Police law to which he got when in training, which he had at home and it was found in the book taxis and buses can drop off on zig zags afer the crossing, his charge was dropped, you will also note some[very few] crossings with zig zags have small signs stating the times of operating, ie outside schools http://www.freelawyer.co.uk/vlawyer/act ... subject2=6 |
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| Author: | Stinky Pete [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zig Zags |
187ums wrote: A mate got ticketed by the police for being on the edge of a zig zag at a crossing, anyone know how he can appeal against it? he reckons the policeman was a bit over zealous and he doesnot think the crossing was being impaired in anyway. Any advice? or does he just take the ticket and three points?
why not ask the police for photo evidence of the crime commited, to which I think are within your rights to ask, because your mate thinks he was at the edge of the lines and the police think he was on the lines, |
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| Author: | tcabbie [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Pete in your link it says seperate fares only so if you have more than one person in your taxi and they are not paying seperatley your nicked |
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| Author: | JD [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
You might find this helpfull, .............................................................. Statutory Instrument 1997 No. 2400 The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1997/19972400.htm 18. The driver of a vehicle shall not cause the vehicle or any part of it to stop within the limits of a crossing unless he is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control or it is necessary for him to stop to avoid injury or damage to persons or property. Pedestrians not to delay on crossings 19. No pedestrian shall remain on the carriageway within the limits of a crossing longer than is necessary for that pedestrian to pass over the crossing with reasonable despatch. Prohibition against the stopping of vehicles in controlled areas 20. - (1) For the purposes of this regulation and regulations 21 and 22 the word "vehicle" shall not include a pedal bicycle not having a sidecar attached to it, whether or not additional means of propulsion by mechanical power are attached to the bicycle. (2) Except as provided in regulations 21 and 22 the driver of a vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it to stop in a controlled area. Exceptions to regulation 20 21. Regulation 20 does not prohibit the driver of a vehicle from stopping it in a controlled area - (a) if the driver has stopped it for the purpose of complying with regulation 25 or 26; (b) if the driver is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control or it is necessary for him to stop to avoid injury or damage to persons or property; or (c) when the vehicle is being used for police, fire brigade or ambulance purposes. Further exceptions to regulation 20 22. - (1) Regulation 20 does not prohibit the driver of a vehicle from stopping it in a controlled area - (a) for so long as may be necessary to enable the vehicle to be used for the purposes of - (i) any building operation, demolition or excavation; (ii) the removal of any obstruction to traffic; (iii) the maintenance, improvement or reconstruction of a road; or (iv) the laying, erection, alteration, repair or cleaning in or near the crossing of any sewer or of any main, pipe or apparatus for the supply of gas, water or electricity, or of any telecommunications apparatus kept installed for the purposes of a telecommunications code system or of any other telecommunications apparatus lawfully kept installed in any position, but only if the vehicle cannot be used for one of those purposes without stopping in the controlled area; or (b) if the vehicle is a public service vehicle being used - (i) in the provision of a local service; or (ii) to carry passengers for hire or reward at separate fares, and the vehicle, having proceeded past the crossing to which the controlled area relates, is waiting in that area in order to take up or set down passengers; or (c) if he stops the vehicle for the purpose of making a left or right turn. (2) In paragraph (1) "local service" has the meaning given in section 2 of the Transport Act 1985[6] but does not include an excursion or tour as defined by section 137(1) of that Act. Prohibition against vehicles proceeding across Pelican or Puffin crossings 23. When vehicular light signals at a Pelican or Puffin crossing are displaying the red light signal the driver of a vehicle shall not cause it to contravene the prohibition given by that signal by virtue of regulation 12 or 13. Prohibition against vehicles overtaking at crossings 24. - (1) Whilst any motor vehicle (in this regulation called "the approaching vehicle") or any part of it is within the limits of a controlled area and is proceeding towards the crossing, the driver of the vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it - (a) to pass ahead of the foremost part of any other motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction; or (b) to pass ahead of the foremost part of a vehicle which is stationary for the purpose of complying with regulation 23, 25 or 26. (2) In paragraph (1) - (a) the reference to a motor vehicle in sub-paragraph (a) is, in a case where more than one motor vehicle is proceeding in the same direction as the approaching vehicle in a controlled area, a reference to the motor vehicle nearest to the crossing; and (b) the reference to a stationary vehicle is, in a case where more than one vehicle is stationary in a controlled area for the purpose of complying with regulation 23, 25 or 26, a reference to the stationary vehicle nearest the crossing. Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings 25. - (1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing, which is not for the time being controlled by a constable in uniform or traffic warden, before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precedence within those limits over that vehicle and the driver of the vehicle shall accord such precedence to any such pedestrian. (2) Where there is a refuge for pedestrians or central reservation on a Zebra crossing, the parts of the crossing situated on each side of the refuge for pedestrians or central reservation shall, for the purposes of this regulation, be treated as separate crossings. Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Pelican crossings 26. When the vehicular light signals at a Pelican crossing are showing the flashing amber signal, every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway or a central reservation within the limits of the crossing (but not if he is on a central reservation which forms part of a system of staggered crossings) before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precedence within those limits over that vehicle and the driver of the vehicle shall accord such precedence to any such pedestrian. ......................................................................................... |
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| Author: | 187ums [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
cheers for the advice, anyhow I think he was at the edge on the zig zags, and the policeman then took a picture. |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zig Zags |
187ums wrote: A mate got ticketed by the police for being on the edge of a zig zag at a crossing, anyone know how he can appeal against it? he reckons the policeman was a bit over zealous and he doesnot think the crossing was being impaired in anyway. Any advice? or does he just take the ticket and three points?
Very good mate of mine got done for parking on zig zags about 15 years ago. 
It really pi$$ed me, sorry my very good mate, off big time.
But to answer your question, he could fight it but in court it will be him against the copper.
Nuff said. |
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| Author: | JD [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
187ums wrote: cheers for the advice, anyhow I think he was at the edge on the zig zags, and the policeman then took a picture.
Perhaps the most relevant wording in the passage as far as you are concerned is that which relates to hire or reward vehicles................. and the vehicle, having proceeded past the crossing to which the controlled area relates, is waiting in that area in order to take up or set down passengers. You would need to define the legal interpretation of what is meant by "proceeding past the crossing". Whether it relates to the whole of the controlled area, or just the section where the public cross? JD |
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| Author: | smiffyz (geoff) [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
JD wrote: 187ums wrote: cheers for the advice, anyhow I think he was at the edge on the zig zags, and the policeman then took a picture. Perhaps the most relevant wording in the passage as far as you are concerned is that which relates to hire or reward vehicles................. and the vehicle, having proceeded past the crossing to which the controlled area relates, is waiting in that area in order to take up or set down passengers. You would need to define the legal interpretation of what is meant by "proceeding past the crossing". Whether it relates to the whole of the controlled area, or just the section where the public cross? Sounds like they've seperated the crossing from the controlled area/crossing from zig zags. but i wouldnt like to be the one who tested the interpretation!! JD |
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| Author: | edders23 [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
the only 3 points i've ever had on my license was for picking up passengers on zig zags outside a local working mens club it is common practise far cars and many taxis to do it but on this occassion a particular copper who was always having a go at taxis saw me and gave me a rollicking at which point my passengers gave him some serious backchat   so i ended up getting a ticket if my passengers had of kept their mouths shut I would have been let off with a warning
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| Author: | TDO [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: (b) if the vehicle is a public service vehicle being used -
(i) in the provision of a local service; or (ii) to carry passengers for hire or reward at separate fares, But that's not referring to taxis/PH though? Thus we have no more right to stop on zig zags than the ordinary motorist? |
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| Author: | Stinky Pete [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
TDO wrote: Quote: (b) if the vehicle is a public service vehicle being used - (i) in the provision of a local service; or (ii) to carry passengers for hire or reward at separate fares, But that's not referring to taxis/PH though? Thus we have no more right to stop on zig zags than the ordinary motorist? No I think your all trying to read the item as a bus, taxis are public service vehicles, I quote this PSVs are vehicles used in an operation where carrying passengers is an integral part of the business. The most obvious passenger service vehicles are buses, taxis and shuttles. |
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| Author: | smiffyz (geoff) [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
An answer from the Police. PSVs can stop after the crossing a taxi is not a PSV unless it can seat 10 or more people including the driver Or it picks up and drops off and everyone pays a seperate fare. It requires a PSV licence and PSV operators licence. PUBLIC SERVICE VEHICLE means a motor vehicle (other than a tramcar) which (a) being a vehicle adapted to carry more than eight passengers, is used for carrying passengers for hire or reward ; or (b) being a vehicle not so adapted, is used for carrying passengers for hire or reward at separate fares in the course of a business of carrying passengers. A vehicle "is used" if it is being so used or if it has been used and that use has not been permanently discontinued. A vehicle carrying passengers at separate fares in the course of a business of carrying passengers, but doing so in circumstances in which the conditions set out in Part 1 or 111 of Schedule 1 of this Act are fulfilled, shall be treated as not being a public service vehicle unless it is adapted to carry more than eight passengers. (this covers sharing taxis, hiring mini buses etc) ; or (b) being a vehicle not so adapted, is used for carrying passengers for hire or reward at separate fares in the course of a business of carrying passengers. |
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| Author: | JD [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
TDO wrote: Quote: (b) if the vehicle is a public service vehicle being used - (i) in the provision of a local service; or (ii) to carry passengers for hire or reward at separate fares, But that's not referring to taxis/PH though? Thus we have no more right to stop on zig zags than the ordinary motorist? Quite right, it does not refer to Taxis. If for instance a Taxi was being utilised under section 12 of the 1985 Transport act which allows it to run as a bus under a special psv license then you probably have a defence. However, knowing several Taxi drivers who have been prosecuted for stopping on a Zig Zig I wouldn't be confident of the law applying the above section to Taxis. Regards JD |
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