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Is any of this legal
http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9992		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  skippy41 [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Is any of this legal
http://taxiforum.hyperboards.com/index. ... id=752#752

Read from 16th November down
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is any of this legal
skippy41 wrote:
http://taxiforum.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=251&post_id=752#752

Can't be arsed to log in, can you copy it to TDO? :?
Author:  skippy41 [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
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DevilsAdvocate
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Posts: 11 Posted: Nov 16th, 2008 at 11:27 pm

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Nov 16th, 2008 at 09:24 pm, SHOPPIEBOD wrote:
WORKING OUT YOUR AREA

The 1976 Government Miscellaneous Provisions Act permits private hire drivers, vehicles and operators licensed by the same authority to carry out pre-booked journeys from and to anywhere in the country. Private Hire vehicles are therefore a national public transport solution.

The 1847 Town Police Clauses Act permits licensed hackney carriage drivers and vehicles to ply for public street hires ONLY within their local authority boundary. Hackney Carriage vehicles are therefore a local public transport solution.

Two different pieces of legislation to cover two different transport solutions.

So your statement that Delta drivers 'work out their area' means what exactly? PLEASE EXPLAIN!?? If you really want to push the boat out, you might try presenting us with an argument that relies upon a little bit more than just childish and abusive insults against your ex-colleagues....

ShoppieBod? More like ChipOnTheShoulderBod...

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Admin
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Posts: 155 Posted: Yesterday at 10:47 am

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Nov 16th, 2008 at 09:24 pm, SHOPPIEBOD wrote:
JOIN DELTA AND YOU TOO CAN BE A SCAB AND PARASITE WORKING OUT YOUR AREA LIKE A MAGGOT THAT EVERYONE APART FROM OTHER DELTA t***s HATE DONT SEND ME ANOTHER MESSAGE UNTIL YOU BAR THAT SCUM

SHOPPIEBOD to stop "Messages" mailed to you just delete your account or let me know and I will do it for you.
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paynorent
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Posts: 77 Posted: Yesterday at 11:43 am

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Nov 16th, 2008 at 11:27 pm, DevilsAdvocate wrote:
Nov 16th, 2008 at 09:24 pm, SHOPPIEBOD wrote:
WORKING OUT YOUR AREA

The 1976 Government Miscellaneous Provisions Act permits private hire drivers, vehicles and operators licensed by the same authority to carry out pre-booked journeys from and to anywhere in the country. Private Hire vehicles are therefore a national public transport solution.

The 1847 Town Police Clauses Act permits licensed hackney carriage drivers and vehicles to ply for public street hires ONLY within their local authority boundary. Hackney Carriage vehicles are therefore a local public transport solution.

Two different pieces of legislation to cover two different transport solutions.

So your statement that Delta drivers 'work out their area' means what exactly? PLEASE EXPLAIN!?? If you really want to push the boat out, you might try presenting us with an argument that relies upon a little bit more than just childish and abusive insults against your ex-colleagues....

ShoppieBod? More like ChipOnTheShoulderBod...


You have your legislation quote the wrong way round, only a hack can work anywhere outwith its area as a PH
See Berwick V Newcastle at www.taxi-driver.co.uk

« Last Edited by paynorent Yesterday at 11:45 am »
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antidelta
Junior Member


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Posts: 7 Posted: Yesterday at 09:43 pm

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have you read the Berwick case ?

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Its interesting the way he compares hackney and private hire as the same, he also makes it clear that a council can restrict private hire licences, although not for keeping numbers down ( in their own district).... It would seem to me that if somebody had a large fleet of private hire vehicles, that were never working and had no intentions of working , their own licensing area.... Then the adjacent district/ Town/ City.... might well have a GOOD argument for another judicial review . AND MIGHT WELL WIN.

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DELTA
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Posts: 5 Posted: Today at 05:27 pm

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In 1993 Liverpool City Council challenged Sefton's operators through the courts with regards to their drivers picking up and dropping off passengers within Liverpool. It was presided over by a stipendiary magistrate (making it a STATED case) and the decision was that private hire vehicles were permitted to pick up and drop off anywhere in the land provided the driver, vehicle and operator were licensed by the same authority. So a Sefton badged driver in a Sefton plated car can accept a booking from a Sefton licensed operator to take pre-booked passengers from anywhere to anywhere.

The practice of Sefton drivers accepting fares from within Liverpool has nothing to do with Liverpool City Council deciding whether it's right or wrong, it's down to the court's interpretation of the 1976 Government Miscellaneous Provisions Act, and in 1993 the courts rejected Liverpool Council's interpretation and found in favour of the way Delta operates today. So a judicial review cannot help here, what you'd need would be a change in the law itself, an AMENDMENT to the 1976 Act, which is precisely what Liverpool Council and trade union representatives have pursued over the last few years. Not surprisingly they haven't got anywhere with central government as Parliament no doubt sees the request for exactly what it is... a protection racket designed to favour one expensive, inefficient transport service from a cheaper, more environmentally friendly alternative.

Berwick is an entirely different matter, and refers to hackney carriage vehicles licensed under the 1847 Town Police Clauses Act. A private hire cannot act as a Hackney but a Hackney can act as a private hire, so a hackney is entitled to accept telephone bookings from anywhere in the land but it is only permitted to accept street hires in the area the vehicle licence was issued. As I understand it, Berwick council have been happy to dish out hackney carriage vehicle licences willy nilly so that drivers can use them out of area as a private hire vehicle. A judicial review could therefore challenge Berwick's decision to issue or refuse to issue plates but this has absolutely nothing to do with private hire vehicles licensed under the 1976 Miscellaneous Provisions Act picking up so called cross-border passengers.

Forget Berwick, that refers to hackney carriage vehicles accepting telephone bookings. If you're talking about private hire vehicles accepting telephone bookings like Delta drivers do then the relevant case is Liverpool Vs Seaforth Radio Cars (1993).
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paynorent
Senior Member


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Posts: 77 Posted: Today at 05:32 pm

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Yesterday at 09:43 pm, antidelta wrote:
have you read the Berwick case ?

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Its interesting the way he compares hackney and private hire as the same, he also makes it clear that a council can restrict private hire licences, although not for keeping numbers down ( in their own district).... It would seem to me that if somebody had a large fleet of private hire vehicles, that were never working and had no intentions of working , their own licensing area.... Then the adjacent district/ Town/ City.... might well have a GOOD argument for another judicial review . AND MIGHT WELL WIN.


It still would not stop anyone from obtaining a hack licence from a much cheaper area and working as PH the Laws the law, read Gladden on the main page. there is also the Wrexham case to come
Author:  GBC [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Its TDO Mk2. :D


Quote:
JOIN DELTA AND YOU TOO CAN BE A SCAB AND PARASITE WORKING OUT YOUR AREA LIKE A MAGGOT THAT EVERYONE APART FROM OTHER DELTA t***s HATE DONT SEND ME ANOTHER MESSAGE UNTIL YOU BAR THAT SCUM


That's fairly straight to the point. 8)
Author:  skippy41 [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
The post dated the 16th of November :shock:
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sorry Skippy, but exactly what bit of that are you questioning the legality of?

Confused from Sussex.
Author:  MR T [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sussex wrote:
Sorry Skippy, but exactly what bit of that are you questioning the legality of?

Allways Confused from Sussex.
Author:  skippy41 [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nov 16th, 2008 at 11:27 pm, DevilsAdvocate wrote:
Nov 16th, 2008 at 09:24 pm, SHOPPIEBOD wrote:
WORKING OUT YOUR AREA

The 1976 Government Miscellaneous Provisions Act permits private hire drivers, vehicles and operators licensed by the same authority to carry out pre-booked journeys from and to anywhere in the country. Private Hire vehicles are therefore a national public transport solution.

The 1847 Town Police Clauses Act permits licensed hackney carriage drivers and vehicles to ply for public street hires ONLY within their local authority boundary. Hackney Carriage vehicles are therefore a local public transport solution.

Two different pieces of legislation to cover two different transport solutions.

In 1993 Liverpool City Council challenged Sefton's operators through the courts with regards to their drivers picking up and dropping off passengers within Liverpool. It was presided over by a stipendiary magistrate (making it a STATED case) and the decision was that private hire vehicles were permitted to pick up and drop off anywhere in the land provided the driver, vehicle and operator were licensed by the same authority. So a Sefton badged driver in a Sefton plated car can accept a booking from a Sefton licensed operator to take pre-booked passengers from anywhere to anywhere.

The practice of Sefton drivers accepting fares from within Liverpool has nothing to do with Liverpool City Council deciding whether it's right or wrong, it's down to the court's interpretation of the 1976 Government Miscellaneous Provisions Act, and in 1993 the courts rejected Liverpool Council's interpretation and found in favour of the way Delta operates today. So a judicial review cannot help here, what you'd need would be a change in the law itself, an AMENDMENT to the 1976 Act, which is precisely what Liverpool Council and trade union representatives have pursued over the last few years. Not surprisingly they haven't got anywhere with central government as Parliament no doubt sees the request for exactly what it is... a protection racket designed to favour one expensive, inefficient transport service from a cheaper, more environmentally friendly alternative.

Berwick is an entirely different matter, and refers to hackney carriage vehicles licensed under the 1847 Town Police Clauses Act. A private hire cannot act as a Hackney but a Hackney can act as a private hire, so a hackney is entitled to accept telephone bookings from anywhere in the land but it is only permitted to accept street hires in the area the vehicle licence was issued. As I understand it, Berwick council have been happy to dish out hackney carriage vehicle licences willy nilly so that drivers can use them out of area as a private hire vehicle. A judicial review could therefore challenge Berwick's decision to issue or refuse to issue plates but this has absolutely nothing to do with private hire vehicles licensed under the 1976 Miscellaneous Provisions Act picking up so called cross-border passengers.

Forget Berwick, that refers to hackney carriage vehicles accepting telephone bookings. If you're talking about private hire vehicles accepting telephone bookings like Delta drivers do then the relevant case is Liverpool Vs Seaforth Radio Cars (1993).
Logged
Author:  captain cab [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Skippy, you dont half post some sh*te :lol:

CC
Author:  skippy41 [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just wanted to know if as the poster states a PH can legally pick up anywhere in the country
Author:  MR T [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Before this case went to court... Liverpool used to insist that the only vehicles that were allowed to pick up in Liverpool where Liverpool licensed vehicles.... I can even remember at one time their answer was that Sefton licensed private hire also Licence as Liverpool.... two car licences.... two drivers' licences
Author:  bloodnock [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
skippy41 wrote:
I just wanted to know if as the poster states a PH can legally pick up anywhere in the country


Of course they can....We would be Knackered if we couldnt go outside our tiny little area....

Ive had bookings from all over the UK. all booked through my local area phone code and operating area.
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
skippy41 wrote:
I just wanted to know if as the poster states a PH can legally pick up anywhere in the country

Yes.
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
well, unless im VERY much mistaken, a hackney can:-


a) tout/ply for hire/take a flag down IN HIS OWN AREA, and in addition:-
b) take any prebooked work from anywhere to anywhere


whereas a PHV can only do "b" above


if not, can someone do my dec 2nd manchester return please?
Author:  captain cab [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
skippy41 wrote:
I just wanted to know if as the poster states a PH can legally pick up anywhere in the country


http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4659&highlight=windsor

Yes skippy, provided the vehicle, driver and operator are all licensed by the same local authority.

CC
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