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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:04 pm 
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Hi Sussex,

Thanks for your help we’ve gone back to the court listing team again and they have now checked their recorded deliveries log and have found confirmation of delivery. They are now trying to locate the documents I have requested that the case is reopened under section 142 of the magistrates court act. Will let you know what happens.

Thank you

Nikki


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:07 pm 
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Well that’s better news, as I said mistakes do happen.

The reopening of the case is a simple process that won’t require your brother to attend.

But he will need to attend when the trial is listed.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:14 am 
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Hi

My brother needs to attend court on the 17/08/20 for the case to be reopned fingers crossed they agree to this.

I’ll keep you all posted.

Thanks

Nikki


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:50 pm 
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Be very surprised if they don't agree to re-open as they have acknowledged they received his documents.

On the 17th your brother, if he pleads not guilty, will need to fill in a PET form (a trial preparation form) which will tell the court what his reasons are for pleading guilty, and which prosecution witnesses he wishes to attend the trial.

The court will estimate how long the trail will last, and when it will take place.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:16 am 
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keep everyone posted on the outcome


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:26 pm 
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Hi all,

My brother attended court today good news they reopened the case and told him to ignore the proposed disqualification ban letter. It will be a couple of months until his hearing.

My brother went with his wife. Before he went into court the duty solicitor discussed his case with him and told him he should plead guilty as in her words you had a mobile phone in your hand and you drove doesn’t matter it was only on car length you’ll probably get 6 points and maximum £1k fine but if you plead guilty early it will look better for you and the judge on today is very lenient so he was actually going to do that it’s only when he went into court the legal advisor said it was to reopen the case based on his not guilty forms. The duty solicitor also said in the police report it says when you were stationary when the police officer went up-to him he was watching some sort of video so it’s likely he’ll be found guilty but this was when the engine was off.

He’s concerned because of what she’s said that he’s going to be found guilty in the end and have a higher outcome than if he plead guilty early. What are people’s thoughts on this?

I know someone posted the max for driver not in proper control of vehicle if your found guilty is 3 points is that not the case? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Nikki


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:49 pm 
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He’s concerned because of what she’s said that he’s going to be found guilty in the end and have a higher outcome than if he plead guilty early. What are people’s thoughts on this?

If people plead guilty they always get a discount on the sentence. In this case it would relate to the fine not the points.

Please see below the sentencing guidelines for careless driving.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/of ... ised-2017/

The number of points will depend on whether the court view the 'passengers for reward' factor in the culpability section as applying, and the 'high level of traffic or pedestrians' factor in the harm section as applying.

If the court view they both apply then the sentence will fall in category 1, 7-9 points.

If the court view that only one of them applies then it will fall in category 2, 5-6 points.

If the court view that neither apply then it will fall in category 3, 3-4 points.

So in terms of points a defence saying that there were few other cars about, and you was stationary with no customers might help. If true.

Where the guilty plea discount will apply is in the level of fines.

Fines are based on your average weekly earnings. So I will base my numbers on your brother earning £400 a week. You can either adjust up or down based on his true earnings.

If, following a trial, the court decide the sentence is in category 1, then it will be a C fine which is 150% of your average weekly earnings, so his fine would be £600. If he pleads guilty he will get a third off, so the fine will be £400.

If the sentence is deemed to be category 2, then it will be a B fine which is 100% of your average weekly earnings, so his fine would be £400, and £264 for a guilty plea.

If the sentence is deemed to be category 3, then it will be a A fine which is 50% of your average weekly earnings, so his fine would be £200, and £132 for a guilty plea.

On top of any sentence he will have to pay a victim surcharge, which is generally 10% of the fine, and costs which will be about £85 for a guilty plea, and about £250 for a full trial.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:53 pm 
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He’s concerned because of what she’s said that he’s going to be found guilty in the end and have a higher outcome than if he plead guilty early. What are people’s thoughts on this?

If he is defo going to plead guilty then he needs to do it now, by ringing or emailing the court.

If so he should (99%) get the full 33,3% discount.

If he leaves it to the day of trial he will only get 10%.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:55 pm 
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I know someone posted the max for driver not in proper control of vehicle if your found guilty is 3 points is that not the case? Any help would be appreciated.

If he got offered, and accepted, a fixed penalty fine.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:37 pm 
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Did he get the disclosure from the court i.e. witness statements etc?

And was a date set for the trial?

Once he has a date and the full disclosure there is nothing stopping him, or you on his behalf, from writing to Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and offering to take a Fixed Penalty Fine for Careless Driving rather than taking the matter to court.

This will save him time, the courts time, the officer's time and CPS's time.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:20 pm 
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Hi,

Thanks al for the advice we really appreciate it. He was only thinking about pleading guilty if it would change the pointe he got not too worried about the fine. But from what I’ve gathered pleading guilty or not guilty doesn’t change the points he gets. He was at the taxi rank so only taxis in the queue in the barrier system and also no passengers.

We emailed the cps and they said it’s a police led prosecution we contacted the police in writing no reply back but we’ve got the names contact now at the courts email address so was thinking about requesting the prosecution case details via them. Also the judge today said his case won’t be for months now so not sure if we should wait and ask for the prosecution case details until he has a court date or do it now.

Also for a fixed penalty notice what would he be looking at in regards to a fine ?

Thanks

Nikki


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:58 pm 
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so not sure if we should wait and ask for the prosecution case details until he has a court date or do it now.

Wait until you get the papers from the CPS.

There is a chance, albeit a small one, that they might discontinue the case. As personally I'm not sure in this current covid situation it really is in the interest of justice to pursue this matter.

But as I said there is only a small chance of that happening.

Quote:
Also for a fixed penalty notice what would he be looking at in regards to a fine ?

£100.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:10 pm 
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Thank you Sussex I won’t get his hopes up too much, and for a fixed penalty for careless driving would it be 3 points?

Thank you in advance. Sorry for all the questions!

Nikki


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:24 pm 
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BladeS1 wrote:
Thank you Sussex I won’t get his hopes up too much, and for a fixed penalty for careless driving would it be 3 points?

Yes.

But don't make the offer until you get the papers and a court date is set.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:10 pm 
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Drivers to be banned from picking up mobile phones

It will become illegal for anyone to pick up and use their mobile phone while driving, under new legislation to be enacted next year.

The change will end a loophole that can allow drivers to escape punishment for using a hand-held phone to take a photo or play a game.

Mobiles will still be able to be used to pay for a drive-through takeaway.

And drivers will still be able to use devices hands-free under the plans, the Department for Transport said.

At present, making phone calls and sending text messages are banned while driving.

Ministers have rejected calls to also ban the use of hands-free function, for example using a sat-nav in a phone cradle.

Roads minister Baroness Vere said hand-held phone use behind the wheel was "distracting and dangerous" and that "for too long risky drivers have been able to escape punishment".

The change in law would apply across the UK and is expected to come into effect early next year, depending on the outcome of the consultation.

National Police Chiefs' Council lead for Roads Policing, Chief Constable Anthony Bangham, said: "Using a mobile phone while driving is incredibly dangerous and being distracted at the wheel can change lives forever.

"Police will take robust action against those using a hand-held mobile phone illegally and proposals to make the law clearer are welcome."

The punishment for drivers caught breaking the rules on hand-held mobile use is six penalty points and a £200 fine.

Phones behind the wheel: the law

Using a hand-held mobile phone or sat-nav while driving is illegal

Any hands-free devices should be fully set up before you drive

Police still have the power to stop you if they think you have been distracted

The law still applies if you're stopped in traffic or queuing at lights

You could get penalty points, a fine and/or a driving ban if you break the law


In 2019, there were 637 casualties on Britain's roads - including 18 deaths and 135 serious injuries - in crashes where a driver using a mobile was a contributory factor.

But drivers have successfully argued that filming or taking photos while driving does not match the wording in the current legislation - which says it is illegal to use a device "which performs an interactive communication" while driving.

In 2019 Ramsey Barreto was found guilty of using his phone to film a crash in north London two years ago. However, the 51-year-old then successfully appealed against the conviction.

The ruling led two High Court judges to criticise the 16-year-old law on using mobile phones, which they said had failed to evolve with the rise of smartphones.

RAC head of roads policy Nicholas Lyes said: "The closing of this loophole is very welcome and reflects the multitude of ways drivers can use hand-held phones when behind the wheel in 2020.

"We know that the use of hand-held mobile phones at the wheel continues to represent a very real road safety risk, so it's clear more needs to be done to make this as socially unacceptable as drink-driving."

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