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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:04 pm 
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Hi Sussex,

Thanks for your help we’ve gone back to the court listing team again and they have now checked their recorded deliveries log and have found confirmation of delivery. They are now trying to locate the documents I have requested that the case is reopened under section 142 of the magistrates court act. Will let you know what happens.

Thank you

Nikki


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:07 pm 
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Well that’s better news, as I said mistakes do happen.

The reopening of the case is a simple process that won’t require your brother to attend.

But he will need to attend when the trial is listed.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:14 am 
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Hi

My brother needs to attend court on the 17/08/20 for the case to be reopned fingers crossed they agree to this.

I’ll keep you all posted.

Thanks

Nikki


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:50 pm 
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Be very surprised if they don't agree to re-open as they have acknowledged they received his documents.

On the 17th your brother, if he pleads not guilty, will need to fill in a PET form (a trial preparation form) which will tell the court what his reasons are for pleading guilty, and which prosecution witnesses he wishes to attend the trial.

The court will estimate how long the trail will last, and when it will take place.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:16 am 
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keep everyone posted on the outcome


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:26 pm 
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Hi all,

My brother attended court today good news they reopened the case and told him to ignore the proposed disqualification ban letter. It will be a couple of months until his hearing.

My brother went with his wife. Before he went into court the duty solicitor discussed his case with him and told him he should plead guilty as in her words you had a mobile phone in your hand and you drove doesn’t matter it was only on car length you’ll probably get 6 points and maximum £1k fine but if you plead guilty early it will look better for you and the judge on today is very lenient so he was actually going to do that it’s only when he went into court the legal advisor said it was to reopen the case based on his not guilty forms. The duty solicitor also said in the police report it says when you were stationary when the police officer went up-to him he was watching some sort of video so it’s likely he’ll be found guilty but this was when the engine was off.

He’s concerned because of what she’s said that he’s going to be found guilty in the end and have a higher outcome than if he plead guilty early. What are people’s thoughts on this?

I know someone posted the max for driver not in proper control of vehicle if your found guilty is 3 points is that not the case? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Nikki


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:49 pm 
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He’s concerned because of what she’s said that he’s going to be found guilty in the end and have a higher outcome than if he plead guilty early. What are people’s thoughts on this?

If people plead guilty they always get a discount on the sentence. In this case it would relate to the fine not the points.

Please see below the sentencing guidelines for careless driving.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/of ... ised-2017/

The number of points will depend on whether the court view the 'passengers for reward' factor in the culpability section as applying, and the 'high level of traffic or pedestrians' factor in the harm section as applying.

If the court view they both apply then the sentence will fall in category 1, 7-9 points.

If the court view that only one of them applies then it will fall in category 2, 5-6 points.

If the court view that neither apply then it will fall in category 3, 3-4 points.

So in terms of points a defence saying that there were few other cars about, and you was stationary with no customers might help. If true.

Where the guilty plea discount will apply is in the level of fines.

Fines are based on your average weekly earnings. So I will base my numbers on your brother earning £400 a week. You can either adjust up or down based on his true earnings.

If, following a trial, the court decide the sentence is in category 1, then it will be a C fine which is 150% of your average weekly earnings, so his fine would be £600. If he pleads guilty he will get a third off, so the fine will be £400.

If the sentence is deemed to be category 2, then it will be a B fine which is 100% of your average weekly earnings, so his fine would be £400, and £264 for a guilty plea.

If the sentence is deemed to be category 3, then it will be a A fine which is 50% of your average weekly earnings, so his fine would be £200, and £132 for a guilty plea.

On top of any sentence he will have to pay a victim surcharge, which is generally 10% of the fine, and costs which will be about £85 for a guilty plea, and about £250 for a full trial.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:53 pm 
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He’s concerned because of what she’s said that he’s going to be found guilty in the end and have a higher outcome than if he plead guilty early. What are people’s thoughts on this?

If he is defo going to plead guilty then he needs to do it now, by ringing or emailing the court.

If so he should (99%) get the full 33,3% discount.

If he leaves it to the day of trial he will only get 10%.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:55 pm 
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I know someone posted the max for driver not in proper control of vehicle if your found guilty is 3 points is that not the case? Any help would be appreciated.

If he got offered, and accepted, a fixed penalty fine.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:37 pm 
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Did he get the disclosure from the court i.e. witness statements etc?

And was a date set for the trial?

Once he has a date and the full disclosure there is nothing stopping him, or you on his behalf, from writing to Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and offering to take a Fixed Penalty Fine for Careless Driving rather than taking the matter to court.

This will save him time, the courts time, the officer's time and CPS's time.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:20 pm 
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Hi,

Thanks al for the advice we really appreciate it. He was only thinking about pleading guilty if it would change the pointe he got not too worried about the fine. But from what I’ve gathered pleading guilty or not guilty doesn’t change the points he gets. He was at the taxi rank so only taxis in the queue in the barrier system and also no passengers.

We emailed the cps and they said it’s a police led prosecution we contacted the police in writing no reply back but we’ve got the names contact now at the courts email address so was thinking about requesting the prosecution case details via them. Also the judge today said his case won’t be for months now so not sure if we should wait and ask for the prosecution case details until he has a court date or do it now.

Also for a fixed penalty notice what would he be looking at in regards to a fine ?

Thanks

Nikki


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:58 pm 
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Quote:
so not sure if we should wait and ask for the prosecution case details until he has a court date or do it now.

Wait until you get the papers from the CPS.

There is a chance, albeit a small one, that they might discontinue the case. As personally I'm not sure in this current covid situation it really is in the interest of justice to pursue this matter.

But as I said there is only a small chance of that happening.

Quote:
Also for a fixed penalty notice what would he be looking at in regards to a fine ?

£100.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:10 pm 
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Thank you Sussex I won’t get his hopes up too much, and for a fixed penalty for careless driving would it be 3 points?

Thank you in advance. Sorry for all the questions!

Nikki


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:24 pm 
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BladeS1 wrote:
Thank you Sussex I won’t get his hopes up too much, and for a fixed penalty for careless driving would it be 3 points?

Yes.

But don't make the offer until you get the papers and a court date is set.

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