Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:11 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:50 pm 
Use this thread to discuss the proposals.

I'm going to start it off with the One Tier consideration because those that will decide won't even see this far into the future.

So assume that all is now one and a taxi is a taxi regardless that now operates as a PH/HC in one


Lets take Johnny as example one.

Johnny is an existing WAV HC owner, when his vehicle has hit the age limit is he now going to spend £30k on a new WAV, or does he go out and buy an 08 Vectra saloon for £5k, no prizes for that one I'm afraid.

Example number two is Stevie, Stevie works in an office but he's being made redundant at the end of the month so to tide him over he buys into the minting cabbie treasury society, he now has a choice, £30k WAV or £5k Vectra, complete exposure to risk or minimal, which one does our toe dipper choose?

Now example three is Mr P Latebaron, he now can go and buy a fleet of Vectra's for a fraction of what a WAV fleet would be, happily sat there with his 30 or so mug drivers all providing him an income where he doesn't have to do anymore than the servicing and paperwork, he's going to be rubbing his hands together isn't he.

The summary as far as I can see is a combined fleet that was for example 600 cars will become 4000 within a few years as the baggers arrive with their economy class entry ticket, and in time probably no more than 3 years there will be no WAV's at all.

Flip the coin and the regulators as they do think they are smart and make a rule that all new licence's have to be WAV ones, results in nobody becoming an owner driver anymore and you effectively place a value on all existing plates not just the still regulated HC ones, so we go another step forward and make everything a WAV, so for a return of £3 ph you can put yourself in a £40k hole, resulting in cab numbers decreasing and service levels falling also, not to mention the standard of car out there, £3 ph for too long means a balding tyre gets run to the wire etc.

Please do add to this, and I know some of the replies I'm going to get, but that's by the by and we can chew them over after they've been posted.


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 19638
That is not to far away from what happens in my area. There are actually only 2 WAVS that ply regulaly with another one that is out occasionally.
Of the 2 that are out regulaly one is an E7 and will be 10 years old this year and because it is not classed as a purpose built WAV it willbe off the road unless the owner takes the council on. The other is an 06 plate TX2 and the owner has it because of the safety screen because she feels safer in it. The occasional one is a 1996 Metrocab and is awfull. My own 1996 Metrocab is not used at the moment.

_________________
Grandad,
To support my charity text MAYORWALK to 70085 to donate £5


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:11 pm
Posts: 8119
Location: A Villa in Aston NO MORE!
You are assuming that age limits will continue to be legal!

I think age limits will be scrapped in the new legislation, in line with the DfT's BPG.

So now we have old knackers on the road in 10-12 years time or sooner. Keep local government testing criteria and you have different standards of vehicles nationally, ranging from the pristine to the below rickshaw standard.

Add to that a one-tier system, where everything is a taxi and allowed to ply for hire and you have the streets and roads clogged up 24/7 in most cities. For instance London's 23,000ish Hackneys become 100,000 plus taxis overnight and Brums taxi fleet increases 5-fold overnight to 7,000ish.

I also think that WAVs in whatever proportions will be a must and if two-tier, hire and reward vehicle licensing continues, that will apply to both tiers.

What I would like to see in any new legislation, is the ability of any taxi allowed to ply for hire, to switch instantly to being a mini-bus, without needing to jump through a load of regulatory fire-hoops, so as to legally take passengers from bus stops on return journeys back to the city centre and not travel back empty.

THEN THEY COULD SAY WE ARE PART OF THE TRANSPORT INFRASTRUCTURE!!!

And that would be true competition with the bus companies for road transport passengers.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 53921
Location: 1066 Country
Didn't Mr Roland in Sept's PHM state that operator don't want a one-tier system. I think his words were 'they didn't want their vehicle doing path work when they had radio work to clear'?

And who's saying the only taxi WAVs licensed will be the £30,000 variety?

My own view is that a one-tier system will never happen, but section 16 will go.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:11 pm
Posts: 8119
Location: A Villa in Aston NO MORE!
Sussex wrote:
Didn't Mr Roland in Sept's PHM state that operator don't want a one-tier system. I think his words were 'they didn't want their vehicle doing path work when they had radio work to clear'?

And who's saying the only taxi WAVs licensed will be the £30,000 variety?

My own view is that a one-tier system will never happen, but section 16 will go.

I'm hoping that section 16 will go and both HC and PH will revert to sensible numbers control for vehicle licences.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:05 pm 
Sussex wrote:
Didn't Mr Roland in Sept's PHM state that operator don't want a one-tier system. I think his words were 'they didn't want their vehicle doing path work when they had radio work to clear'?

And who's saying the only taxi WAVs licensed will be the £30,000 variety?

My own view is that a one-tier system will never happen, but section 16 will go.



Indeed I think he did, but one voice might not cut it, and so I thought it would be a good idea to collect what others think.

Any approved WAV is a minimum 23k, put the interest on that and then compare it to a 5k saloon, which everyone will be entitled to have should it go one way, anyway the real point to that comment was to show that the cheap route isn't a WAV nor has it ever been tbh and if you can get away with a cat 4 write off current cabbies will do just that.

I hope you are right that it remains two tier, section 16 I've not read up on so I can't comment on that.



@ Grandad

You can do the bus routes now if you wish, I recently proposed a scheme aimed at Indy hacks where the bus stops on the main route through the city you could be flagged and charge £1 per head that gets in up to your licensed limit, it was for only one route and only one way, the object was to allow a bus customer to pay bus fare in a cab but knowing they may have to share with others, and the benefit to the driver is the route led back to the ranks so he could kill dead miles with a token compo, as usual when I proposed it there were those not wanting to participate, I'd rather have every penny and get nothing than potentially get £4 returning to the rank, but hey ho that's another reason I want to hang up by keys because right now I feel like a cat with no claws trying to climb a wall.


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 14151
Location: Wirral
If as you say a single tier exists it would be sensible to ensure a sufficient % of WAVs exist. To this end if the % drops below the required number of WAVs then the only licenses to be made available should be for WAVs until the % balances out. With regard to the saloon taxi they should be new on first licence thus preventing the purchase of £5,000 saloons. To prevent the flooding of the market by the current PH fleet all becoming taxis over night there should be a time limit for ph drivers to take and pass the relevant taxi knowledge test within their area before the law is enacted. It is by driver knowledge and ability to do the job as well high vehicle standards that licences should be issued

_________________
Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 8518
Some people on here might well remember the time when finance was not available to taxi or private hire drivers, if the trade is completely turned upside-down, people need to bear in mind the financial side of what might happen, anyone purchasing TX 's will have noticed that the deposits have increased, if people buy car's and have to return them than the finance companies will simply pull out of that market.. the trade needs stability otherwise it goes under.

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 19638
Doom wrote:


@ Grandad

You can do the bus routes now if you wish, I recently proposed a scheme aimed at Indy hacks where the bus stops on the main route through the city you could be flagged and charge £1 per head that gets in up to your licensed limit, it was for only one route and only one way, the object was to allow a bus customer to pay bus fare in a cab but knowing they may have to share with others, and the benefit to the driver is the route led back to the ranks so he could kill dead miles with a token compo, as usual when I proposed it there were those not wanting to participate, I'd rather have every penny and get nothing than potentially get £4 returning to the rank, but hey ho that's another reason I want to hang up by keys because right now I feel like a cat with no claws trying to climb a wall.


Actually it was Brummie that mentioned bus routes, not me.

_________________
Grandad,
To support my charity text MAYORWALK to 70085 to donate £5


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 19638
MR T wrote:
Some people on here might well remember the time when finance was not available to taxi or private hire drivers, if the trade is completely turned upside-down, people need to bear in mind the financial side of what might happen, anyone purchasing TX 's will have noticed that the deposits have increased, if people buy car's and have to return them than the finance companies will simply pull out of that market.. the trade needs stability otherwise it goes under.


This is very true.

_________________
Grandad,
To support my charity text MAYORWALK to 70085 to donate £5


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 19638
toots wrote:
With regard to the saloon taxi they should be new on first licence thus preventing the purchase of £5,000 saloons.


That would prevent many people from buying a car? Is that your intention? The depriciation in the first year on a new car is staggering, is it your intention to subject taxi drivers to this? Just the VAT is a small fortune and unless you are VAT registered then you would lose this as soon as you drive out of the showroom.

_________________
Grandad,
To support my charity text MAYORWALK to 70085 to donate £5


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 53921
Location: 1066 Country
Doom wrote:
Any approved WAV is a minimum 23k,

The crash tested 4-seater WAV from Cab Direct is £16,500.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:16 pm 
Sussex wrote:
Doom wrote:
Any approved WAV is a minimum 23k,

The crash tested 4-seater WAV from Cab Direct is £16,500.



That must be an adapted Bellingo or similar? iirc they will insist on a new WAV being a 5 seater at least, could be wrong though.

But even using that as a model the cash price is ok but put the £85pw over 5 years with a £1000 deposit into perspective and it still isn't as attractive as the £5k option is it.

I was looking at the Caddy Max Life myself a while back, but that is £20k plus and not an option, especially when trying to compete with Shirt Button Cars.

p.s sorry Grandad, you are correct it was Brum who mentioned the bus stops.


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 53921
Location: 1066 Country
Doom wrote:
But even using that as a model the cash price is ok but put the £85pw over 5 years with a £1000 deposit into perspective and it still isn't as attractive as the £5k option is it.

But is the £85 per week taxi WAV a better option for some over the radio rent for the saloon PH?

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:19 am 
Sussex wrote:
Doom wrote:
But even using that as a model the cash price is ok but put the £85pw over 5 years with a £1000 deposit into perspective and it still isn't as attractive as the £5k option is it.

But is the £85 per week taxi WAV a better option for some over the radio rent for the saloon PH?



So you think that another 400 Independents will last long without a radio?

£18 in 3.5 hours for me today, Tesco has it now in return for putting my low fuel light out for another 100 miles. :doubt:

The one flaw in all the proposals is that there is an assumption that there is always demand for a cab, when it's infact demand for a punter.


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group