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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:30 pm 
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MR T wrote:
I think they must be referring to the Revenue received from drivers to companies


Quote:
THE INDUSTRY TODAY
1.54 The taxi and private hire vehicle industry today is a significant contributor to UK
economic activity. The Department for Transport’s latest statistics indicate that
there are nearly 300,000 licensed taxi and private hire vehicle drivers in England
and Wales driving 78,000 taxi vehicles and 155,000 private hire vehicles.32 Total
revenue is estimated at £1.4 billion a year.33 In 2011 London, with an estimated
29% of taxis and 33% of all private hire vehicles, accounted for a
disproportionately large share of industry activity.


Can't really see anything there to suggest that they're referring to anything other than income from customers.

To be honest it's the kind of figure that I'd always brush over because it's always likely to be a ball park figure and is anyway totally irrelevant to the substantive arguments being made by the LC, but it's certainly way off the mark.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:34 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
it's always likely to be a ball park figure and is anyway totally irrelevant to the substantive arguments being made by the LC, but it's certainly way off the mark.



I disagree, this is a multi billion pound industry and they are about to shake it up from top to bottom affecting directly the lives of going on for 250,000 people.

If they cannot get their figures right, by as much as a billion pounds what chance has the rest of it?

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:37 pm 
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The OFT said:

Quote:
The licensed taxi and PHV services market in the UK is large and growing with an annual turnover of at least £2.2 billion. [National Statistics, Consumer Trends, Quarter 1 2003. This is the expenditure of UK households in 2002. Spending on taxis by business and tourists are excluded. This figure is therefore an under-estimate of the true size of the UK taxi and PHV market.]


Since this was ten years ago and in view of business and tourist income being excluded then that's perhaps consistent with my own figure of £4 billion plus.

The LC has simply taken the figure from the IBIS report, and given the complete and utter nonsense that the latter spouted about PH regulation then it's hardly a surprise that the figure cited is complete nonsense as well. :?


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
The OFT said:

Quote:
The licensed taxi and PHV services market in the UK is large and growing with an annual turnover of at least £2.2 billion. [National Statistics, Consumer Trends, Quarter 1 2003. This is the expenditure of UK
households in 2002. Spending on taxis by business and tourists are excluded. This figure is
therefore an under-estimate of the true size of the UK taxi and PHV market.]


Since this was ten years ago and in view of business and tourist income being excluded then that's perhaps consistent with my own figure of £4 billion plus.

The LC has simply taken the figure from the IBIS report, and given the complete and utter nonsense that the latter spouted about PH regulation then it's hardly a surprise that the figure cited is complete nonsense as well. :?


I did actually say similar at Fri May 11, 2012 4:27 pm :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:42 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Dusty Bin wrote:
The OFT said:

Quote:
The licensed taxi and PHV services market in the UK is large and growing with an annual turnover of at least £2.2 billion. [National Statistics, Consumer Trends, Quarter 1 2003. This is the expenditure of UK
households in 2002. Spending on taxis by business and tourists are excluded. This figure is
therefore an under-estimate of the true size of the UK taxi and PHV market.]


Since this was ten years ago and in view of business and tourist income being excluded then that's perhaps consistent with my own figure of £4 billion plus.

The LC has simply taken the figure from the IBIS report, and given the complete and utter nonsense that the latter spouted about PH regulation then it's hardly a surprise that the figure cited is complete nonsense as well. :?


I did actually say similar at Fri May 11, 2012 4:27 pm :lol:


Yes, more than 12 hours after I'd said the same thing initially :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:43 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:

Yes, more than 12 hours after I'd said the same thing initially :roll:


and 24hours later you felt the need to say it again :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:45 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Dusty Bin wrote:
it's always likely to be a ball park figure and is anyway totally irrelevant to the substantive arguments being made by the LC, but it's certainly way off the mark.



I disagree, this is a multi billion pound industry and they are about to shake it up from top to bottom affecting directly the lives of going on for 250,000 people.

If they cannot get their figures right, by as much as a billion pounds what chance has the rest of it?


Well apart from those trying to pick holes in the report by focusing on irrelevancies like this I can't really see anyone else being interested.

And I'd like to see anyone in the trade trying to put forward their own figures. I suspect they'd prefer to keep quiet on that one :-$


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:47 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:

Well apart from those trying to pick holes in the report by focusing on irrelevancies like this I can't really see anyone else being interested.

And I'd like to see anyone in the trade trying to put forward their own figures. I suspect they'd prefer to keep quiet on that one :-$



I'm quite happy with my £120 per week thanks :roll:

So you think a missing billion quid is irrelevant?

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:57 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Dusty Bin wrote:

Yes, more than 12 hours after I'd said the same thing initially :roll:


and 24hours later you felt the need to say it again :roll:


Yes, to compare the figure to my own ballpark figure of £4 billion plus. And to highlight the fact that you hadn't mentioned the fact that the OFT excluded business and tourist income.

And almost twenty hours later you're also quoting from the IBIS report which I'd addressed.

And you're slagging me for repitition? :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm8GJ6zbc5g


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:58 pm 
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captain cab wrote:


So you think a missing billion quid is irrelevant?


So what's its relevance then?

Please provide a specific example of how it's relevant.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
captain cab wrote:


So you think a missing billion quid is irrelevant?


So what's its relevance then?

Please provide a specific example of how it's relevant.

Maybe little in regards to the substance of the report, but plenty in regards to the care taken over getting things right.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:12 pm 
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The LC will just blame IBIS and their £500 report, assuming anyone's ever really bothered enough to highlight it.

The LC will claim that IBIS portrays itself as an authoritative source of industry information and that they just assumed it was correct.

And then if anyone still wants to push the issue the LC will ask its precise relevance, and answer will come none.


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:39 am 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
The LC will just blame IBIS and their £500 report, assuming anyone's ever really bothered enough to highlight it.

The LC will claim that IBIS portrays itself as an authoritative source of industry information and that they just assumed it was correct.

And then if anyone still wants to push the issue the LC will ask its precise relevance, and answer will come none.



They didnt have to pay that money though, and I guess none of us will, which is perhaps what they are counting on?

They could and should have used the same source as the OFT, not some private outfit.

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:02 am 
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Sussex wrote:
I wonder if the £1.4 billion is the turnover of all the PH operators and large taxi firms. :?

It wouldn't surprise one little bit if the Law Commission have yet again forgot about the drivers. :sad:


You could be right Sussex but when you think our company draws in about £1.025Million per annum alone, and thats just one small company in Brighton, the figures quoted are way out!

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:33 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
They didnt have to pay that money though, and I guess none of us will, which is perhaps what they are counting on?

They could and should have used the same source as the OFT, not some private outfit.


Perhaps they thought that since the OFT figures missed out a huge chunk of revenue then they were unreliable. And the figures weren't even direct revenue anyway, they were from a consumer survey.

Of course, it looks like the figures from IBIS are even more unreliable, but it would be interesting to see how they were compiled. To be honest I wouldn't trust any such figure from any source, because I can't see how they can be compiled at all with any degree of accuracy.

I think the word often used in this context is 'spurious'.

And I can't understand why anyone would think that the figure is for anything other than fares paid by customers. Any office income just comes out of that, so I can't really see it as being relevant.


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