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 Post subject: Lack Of Ranks Solution
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:27 am 
As all will be aware there is currently a lack of rank spaces vs licenced Hack vehicles,

This is due to two things, oversupply and the councils grabbing back the prime parking so they can meter it,

I don't see this trend stopping any time soon so here's my thoughts on this one,

As it costs money to provide ranks and they tend to die as the trade leaves them due to the attraction in the vicinity closing and the popular spot being elsewhere on a rotating basis I think it's time to allow a Hack to sit anywhere it feels it would be most effective in attracting custom without the need for a rank,

Nobody seems interested in stopping PH doing this same exact thing right now and it would serve to stop them pretending to be on a booking,

In days of old the rule stopped infighting because someone might pull up 100 yards down from a rank and intercept, but the face of the drivers has changed now and with the addition of fleets of pirating PHC's I see no other option than to make the hack the enforcement officer in the manner of presence being the put off factor to the PH,

A prime example is about to happen locally, a venue spot that is privately owned is about to close the rank, this comes on top of the rank being exchanged with the drop off point some time back, since then it's allowed PH to sit on the old rank under 2 cameras and have it's own illegal rank, the result of this has been the PH 3 abreast blocking the road and the rank stacking up because no hack is getting the job it was due, double whammy in a way,

Now I know this is going to be like getting volleyed to a dishonest PHD reading this, but I don't care you've forced this issue and if those with the power to regulate things in a fair and legal manner cannot be bothered then the time has come for some serious carpet wearing shoes to annoy the hell out of those who take good wages each week to ensure fairplay,

Remember, 2 upsides to this, no more rank creation costs and the weight removed from the LO's trying to catch a driver whose looking out for them anyway and knows who he looking out for at the same time.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:36 pm 
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So basically you're wanting to legalise what is currently illegal plying for hire ?

Without taking sides, if we're going to change the rules for one side of the trade then what concessions are going to be made for the other, you could argue that by allowing HC to rank wherever they feel that they will take trade away from the PH.

So if we change the law to allow HC to ply wherever they like perhaps we should change the law that PH can't pick up off the street or park on HC ranks - in which case we might as well go one step further and remove any differentiation between PH and HC. All vehicles could then park and ply wherever they want and take jobs without bookings.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:48 pm 
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It doesn't cost much money to adopt new ranks, just a bit of work from the trade.

Not quite sure many would want a rank outside their bedrooms at night, so your free for all suggestion ain't going to happen.

What the trade need to do is to lobby councillors to get more ranks, and if they say no then lobby even harder.

That said the so-called taxi reps down here lobby for ranks in the middle of no where, get them, and the trade never use them. So maybe the trade gets what it deserves.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:04 pm 
Sasha I want to thank you for that reply because it is the reason there are now problems (this isn't aimed at you personally btw) for quite a while PH has thought it is a Taxi in the respect of what a Taxi really is when what it really is is chauffeuring for the masses,

A PH car has no right to expect anything other than the ability to service a customer who has made arrangements with them, end of, a Hackney is there to serve the instant customer who wants one at the flag of an arm, so why should the service that is designed for that be denied the ability by forcing it to return to a rank (which there aren't enough of anyway) common sense would be required so as Sussex mentioned you don't get Radio One at 1pm coming through your bedroom window with a 2.0 DTi bass sub for good measure, whether that is possible with the mush that now holds licences or not I don't know, (well actually I do but there has to be a way to educate) basically I'm talking of the ability to sit opp a good pub or club where there isn't a rank, putting in ranks where nobody wants a cab is a simple waste of time and money, right now we have 250 cars competing for about 40 viable rank spaces between all the ranks in the city,

There is no concession to give to PH, it's simply not their arena, they aren't licenced to sit around waiting for a flag, PH is breaking all the rules and conditions that allowed it to form in the first place, bullying it's way in infact, and if you had a way to ensure it only picked up it's pre-booked fares you would find a lot of them struggling to cope with the pay in,

On the PH side though, I think it's time the outrageous charges and compulsory purchasing of company advertising was stopped, if a firm want a McDonalds uniform it should supply one FOC, and another improvement would be pay per job, that way the firm owner needs to make sure his drivers are getting paid so he in turn gets paid on Monday, all this £140pw regardless for a radio is simply theft imo, another line which I would say will work is to make the firm owner responsible, so if he has drivers pirating and they get caught, he gets fined as well, soon stop then wouldn't it,

Anyway thx for the replies guys and keep em coming.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:40 am 
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Doom wrote:
A PH car has no right to expect anything other than the ability to service a customer who has made arrangements with them, end of,

And it's such a shame the PH side of the trade does it far better than your side.

But in respect of your rank point, what's that got to do with it. PH don't disappear into thin air between jobs, they must sit somewhere, and the road is the place.

What you are saying is basically the reps from the taxi trade, or your taxi trade, are too lazy to actually do their job and represent their drivers properly.

Which surprises me not a jot.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:10 am 
Sussex wrote:
Doom wrote:
A PH car has no right to expect anything other than the ability to service a customer who has made arrangements with them, end of,

And it's such a shame the PH side of the trade does it far better than your side.

But in respect of your rank point, what's that got to do with it. PH don't disappear into thin air between jobs, they must sit somewhere, and the road is the place.

What you are saying is basically the reps from the taxi trade, or your taxi trade, are too lazy to actually do their job and represent their drivers properly.

Which surprises me not a jot.



No they don't and no they can't, but they also should not sit in position where they are likely to get approached either, and in todays world they are actually sitting in these spots deliberately,

Nobody is being too lazy, down your way is according to you run efficiently, yet there is still the need to discuss the problem at the meetings isn't there, so even in an area which I admit does look very well set up this problem still exists,

But lets make no mistake here a PH car has no right to expect anything other than pre booking custom, there is no why can't a PHC tout for business independently, it's why one is Private and the other is Public, bit like Mens and Ladies toilets, one should never try to use the others facilities should they, and before I get the Hack on a circuit routine, that is down to who owns the office, if they want a Hack on their fleet then they made that choice, there is no room for allowing it to happen the other way around otherwise a bus company will be wanting to pick people up using HGV lorries, we are what we are by description and that is route one of the problem because drivers aren't following the rules and office owners are encouraging them to do it, if anyone is to blame it's the law itself for failing to provide effective enforcement rules.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Nobody is being too lazy, down your way is according to you run efficiently, yet there is still the need to discuss the problem at the meetings isn't there, so even in an area which I admit does look very well set up this problem still exists,

Down here the taxi trade is run far from efficiently. Which is why they share similar problems to your inefficiently run trade.

Peanuts and monkeys.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:27 pm 
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Doom wrote:
But lets make no mistake here a PH car has no right to expect anything other than pre booking custom, there is no why can't a PHC tout for business independently, it's why one is Private and the other is Public,

I'm grateful for you pointing out the f***ing obvious.

But that still doesn't address the point that PH have to sit somewhere between jobs.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:17 pm 
Sussex wrote:
Doom wrote:
Nobody is being too lazy, down your way is according to you run efficiently, yet there is still the need to discuss the problem at the meetings isn't there, so even in an area which I admit does look very well set up this problem still exists,

Down here the taxi trade is run far from efficiently. Which is why they share similar problems to your inefficiently run trade.

Peanuts and monkeys.


I disagree, I think the Brighton Hack Association is run quite well myself, but I guess you and Jeff would disagree as their plans don't fit in with yours do they?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:24 pm 
Sussex wrote:
Doom wrote:
But lets make no mistake here a PH car has no right to expect anything other than pre booking custom, there is no why can't a PHC tout for business independently, it's why one is Private and the other is Public,

I'm grateful for you pointing out the f***ing obvious.

But that still doesn't address the point that PH have to sit somewhere between jobs.



It might be obvious to you and me, but it is far from obvious to Pavel,Asmir and Jimi Hendrix, hence why we now required this re-vamp of the laws,

PH does have to sit somewhere I agree, but it should be a minimum half a mile from venues and other good foot traffic areas, plenty of time and not much wasted miles to service the ringing punter then,

Let me give you an example of how PH takes liberties, our night complex moved our rank so we are no longer the first thing the customers see as they leave, in response the PH made a logging zone on the old rank which was actually supposed to become the drop off point for the complex, so drivers were sitting there plotted in and helping themselves to the public that didn't realise the rank had moved, it's dirty tactics full stop, so no excuses please or perhaps we should sit by the office with a large sign under quoting anything the PH is quoting simply to spite PH, oh and one more thing, 3 abreast PH cars have now made it likely all cabs of any denomination will no longer be able to rank,drop or pick up there anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Doom wrote:
PH does have to sit somewhere I agree, but it should be a minimum half a mile from venues and other good foot traffic areas, plenty of time and not much wasted miles to service the ringing punter then,


For me to do that I would have to sit outside my area :?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:32 pm 
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toots wrote:
Doom wrote:
PH does have to sit somewhere I agree, but it should be a minimum half a mile from venues and other good foot traffic areas, plenty of time and not much wasted miles to service the ringing punter then,

For me to do that I would have to sit outside my area :?

Come the revolution there will be no PH areas.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
toots wrote:
Doom wrote:
PH does have to sit somewhere I agree, but it should be a minimum half a mile from venues and other good foot traffic areas, plenty of time and not much wasted miles to service the ringing punter then,

For me to do that I would have to sit outside my area :?

Come the revolution there will be no PH areas.


I don't think that is a good thing

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:40 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Come the revolution there will be no PH areas.



Come the revolution, they'll be against the wall and bot, bot, bot as wolfie used to say :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:12 am 
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Doom wrote:
I'm talking of the ability to sit opp a good pub or club where there isn't a rank.

We seem to have the opposite happening round here, HC already park outside every busy venue whether there's a rank there or not and the PH tend to sit and wait for bookings in side streets. I'm not going to say that some PH don't take walk-ups but it's so negligible that it's not a problem round here.

My argument was that if you're going to change the rules so that it benefits one side of the trade, possibly to the detriment of the other, then there should be a change in the rules to BOTH sides. You've said that PH have no right to expect anything other than pre booking custom, which is true, but what happens to those bookings from pubs, clubs, shops and other busy areas if hacks were allowed to park outside the front door ?

You quite rightly get angry when you see a line of PH outside a venue making themselves available for hire, but on the other side of the fence how would you feel if, as a PH, you knew you will never get a booking from the busiest venue in town because there is always half a dozen HC parked outside ranking illegaly ?


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