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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:51 pm 
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A little birdy has informed me that all stakeholders (I believe that to be the NPHA, GMB, Unite, NTA etc) have been sent letter informing them that they mustn't be rude or defamatory to the officers of the Law Commission, who are undertaking the taxi/PH review. :shock:

By all accounts some stuff has been said on message boards and forums ( :shock: :shock: ), and at some of the consultation meetings, that was a bit near the knuckle, and if it carries on the police will get involved. :shock: :shock:

The way I see all this is that it shows the Law Commission exactly how 'regulatory capture' works in the taxi/PH trade. :-$

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:05 pm 
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what you mean is they are not interested in hearing the truth, rather they want to steam roll there proposals on to the folks and to hell with the repercussions...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:10 pm 
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187ums wrote:
what you mean is they are not interested in hearing the truth, rather they want to steam roll there proposals on to the folks and to hell with the repercussions...

So it's you !!!!! :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Your funny Sussex, you really are.....


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:31 pm 
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187ums wrote:
Your funny Sussex, you really are.....

Back to the point, folks aren't going to get the LC to change their proposals by slagging their staff off, only by producing coherent and reasoned arguments, backed up by facts, as to where the LC are wrong.

The normal taxi rants ain't going to work in this case, and if sections of the trade cross the line then plod will be paying them a visit. :-$

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:34 am 
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Sussex wrote:
187ums wrote:
Your funny Sussex, you really are.....

Back to the point, folks aren't going to get the LC to change their proposals by slagging their staff off, only by producing coherent and reasoned arguments, backed up by facts, as to where the LC are wrong.

The normal taxi rants ain't going to work in this case, and if sections of the trade cross the line then plod will be paying them a visit. :-$


Whilst on a serious note the normal taxi rants are not going to wash with LC, they must surely expect some flack from the trade, especially on forums where drivers etc feel free to express themselves. Providing it's only a rant and is not threatening I don't see the problem

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:00 am 
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Sussex wrote:
187ums wrote:
Your funny Sussex, you really are.....

Back to the point, folks aren't going to get the LC to change their proposals by slagging their staff off, only by producing coherent and reasoned arguments, backed up by facts, as to where the LC are wrong.

The normal taxi rants ain't going to work in this case, and if sections of the trade cross the line then plod will be paying them a visit. :-$

Have the big bad Law Commission frightened you with their threats..... :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:08 am 
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Sussex wrote:
A little birdy has informed me that all stakeholders (I believe that to be the NPHA, GMB, Unite, NTA etc) have been sent letter informing them that they mustn't be rude or defamatory to the officers of the Law Commission, who are undertaking the taxi/PH review. :shock:

By all accounts some stuff has been said on message boards and forums ( :shock: :shock: ), and at some of the consultation meetings, that was a bit near the knuckle, and if it carries on the police will get involved. :shock: :shock:

The way I see all this is that it shows the Law Commission exactly how 'regulatory capture' works in the taxi/PH trade. :-$

This certainly shows that they don't have much experience in the real world, so what chance will they show any common sense writing up a new Act .. IMO.. but the bullyboy approach won't go down well with the local MP's

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:43 am 
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toots wrote:
Whilst on a serious note the normal taxi rants are not going to wash with LC, they must surely expect some flack from the trade, especially on forums where drivers etc feel free to express themselves. Providing it's only a rant and is not threatening I don't see the problem

But we are in the trade and we know 99.999% of those rants are either bluff or banter, I'm not sure the LC realise that.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:44 am 
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MR T wrote:
.. but the bullyboy approach won't go down well with the local MP's

But it's the LC saying the trade are the bully-boys.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:06 am 
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The Casey Column

By

Wayne Casey


The views expressed in this column are not those of the National Taxi Association

Saved by the Postman!

I was admittedly a little stumped about the nature of this month’s sermon, rather lazily, but predictably, I was going to borrow another chapter from the local association response to the Law Commission I borrowed last month, yet as it turns out, I won’t need it. The reason I won’t need it, is that the Law Commission sent me a letter. Arriving a few days before my 43rd birthday, I opened it rather expectantly – it could have been a card with some money in it (clutching at straws on that one). Sadly, my bizarre expectations were somewhat dashed; it was a letter regarding a poster that is circulating throughout the cab trade, the same poster that appeared next to my article in the August issue of the magazine.

From memory, I did actually speak with the Editor regarding the offending ‘tongue in cheek’ picture, the words I used in the opening few sentences did go along the lines of: “They’ll think I f**king did that!” To which I might add, my total innocence in this whole affair, I did not design the poster nor place it in the magazine! Sadly, some of the ‘Law Commission’ have taken great offence at this particular poster, so much so they wrote to me – I understand they wrote to other bodies whose birthday’s are not during August. Apparently – and I’m not altogether sure if they are referring entirely to the picture that appeared beside my article because they didn’t actually say as much – it depicts analogies with the Mafia and Nazism. They must be upset though, because they advise in the letter they’ve called the rozzers.

Looking at the picture, which is in the style of a ‘wanted’ poster from the US ‘wild west’, it does seem to give Law Commission staff titles which are presumably associated with the Mafioso. Although, I’d have to either watch the ‘Godfather’ or do a Google to check the meaning of the titles bestowed. I certainly couldn’t see any references to Nazism – and given that some writers in this magazine are of the Jewish faith – and no complaint has been received, I suppose that is a tad of an over-reaction. All in all I suggest the style of the poster is not of great offence – it’s more to do with the fact that photographs of the commissioners had been obtained then unceremoniously placed behind bars – in the style of the ‘wild west’ wanted posters previously mentioned.

Given the parlous state that the taxi trade finds itself in – the poster seems to be more akin to a gallows humour – perhaps and at a push, a clarion call to wake the taxi trade up – the poster itself, or so I’m told – is more or less a copy of what was produced when the 1994 Green Paper was in the offing, Steve Norris was then the ‘butt’ of trade humour. Of course, reference made to Nazism may have come via the ‘taxi driver online’ internet forum; yours truly did actually quote the words of an article by Chris Hedges, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist of far higher regard than my good self.

“It was the careerists who made possible the genocides, from the extermination of Native Americans to the Turkish slaughter of the Armenians to the **** Holocaust to Stalin’s liquidations. They were the ones who kept the trains running. They filled out the forms and presided over the property confiscations. They rationed the food while children starved. They manufactured the guns. They ran the prisons. They enforced travel bans, confiscated passports, seized bank accounts and carried out segregation. They enforced the law. They did their jobs.”

I may have even mentioned the fact that in **** Germany the entire system of death was made possible by bureaucrats – the timetables sending trains to death camps – the signal boxes – the paperwork were all jobs done by ordinary people who went home each night after a hard day’s work. Whether you like it or not – the jobs mentioned above weren’t done by hardened Nazis – they were jobs done each day by everyday Germans. I wrote as much in this very magazine in April 2010 – obviously this was a couple of years before the Law Commission got involved in taxis – but I’ve got broad shoulders. Interestingly enough, if they were upset about that particular quote, then their threat to call the rozzers doesn’t make sense – at the time of writing I understand the website in question has not been asked to remove the post – which is the first port of call in any complaint.

As many people will know, whatever the Law Commission decide with taxi law it will hardly affect my good self – they cannot ‘double deregulate’ in Carlisle. But I am reminded by a tale I heard – which is anecdotal and therefore will be of little consequence to our esteemed judges. I met a lady who was in her early 50s at a cab trade meeting I was asked to attend. Smokers in general are sociable types, stepping outside to have cigarettes during meetings is a norm. I got chatting to the lady and she reminded me of one of the reasons why I’m so much against deregulation. She’d driven cabs for as long as me, some 25 years, although she was in a regulated area – she fell into the trade by accident, like so many other people do. After a couple of years she decided to purchase a cab and plate – she paid that one off, driving it herself on nightshift whilst she had a driver on days. The town was booming so when she finally paid for her first cab, she saved some money and got part finance for another. Then tragedy struck, because life is generally like that. Her father was struck down with an illness, followed a year or so later by her mother – she decided to take the job of caring for them full time – she found a couple of decent drivers and rented her cabs out – whilst her parents moved in with her.

Now the obvious question here is what this has to do with the Law Commission or this article. Well, if the cab trade deregulates her second cab isn’t yet paid for – her drivers on both cabs may leave for pastures new – leaving her with two cabs without the income to pay for the cab finance – her only source of income will go – she will then not be able to take care of her parents – who will be presumably carted off to some care home where they become a burden upon the state. She may lose her home. People will rightly draw many different things as a result of the above tale and no doubt some will dismiss the story as a one off – dismiss the story as if this person’s life, and the lives of her parents don’t matter – it’s to be viewed as collateral damage towards the greater good. In the same respect as the Law Commission see taxis as a ‘project’ – as opposed to the human cost and a human face at the end of it. Maybe this is what the Law Commission are actually upset about, the fact that the poster gave a face to an otherwise faceless task? Perhaps someone from the Law Commission can tell the lady I was smoking with “If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen”, I’m sure that will go down really well.

This is a problem to me. The Law Commission have mentioned the taxi situation in Ireland in their documents – the only reference to the hardship panel that was set up by the Irish Government is a passing paragraph (9.32) suggesting that type of fund wouldn’t be needed in this country because the OECD says its unnecessary. There isn’t a single reference to the findings of the hardship panel – no mention of the illnesses created – no mention of the families driven apart by arguments over money – only passing reference to the hours drivers are forced to endure and no mention of 30 odd suicides brought about by spiralling debt. To cite Irish taxi deregulation as a success, because in 1998, 23% of people waited less than 5 minutes for a taxi – compared to 50% in 2008 (although the Law Commission don’t give us a source for that information) doesn’t have any grasp of reality. The fact that the Irish Government are now only issuing licenses to wheelchair accessible vehicles and have brought in a restriction on other vehicle types (and pre-booked) licenses and offered a subsidy to those purchasing WAVs tells an awful lot.

I reiterate, how can any serious study which advises of Irish taxi deregulation fail to mention the socio-economic reality of what it brought about? How can a fair document fail to mention this, well I personally believe its omission is so obvious it must have been deliberate. It’s not as if it’s a difficult document to find, simply Google “report of the Irish taxi hardship panel” and it comes up top of the rankings.

The letter I received states: Law Commission staff have been subject to derogatory/verbal abuse at some meetings they’ve attended – although NTA meetings are chaired and minuted – it would be interesting to discover where this occurred. I know for certain they were not verbally abused in the NTA meetings they attended in Exeter, Newcastle, Sunderland or Scarborough. If Law Commission staff have been verbally abused, then that’s obviously bad – and those who verbally abused them should perhaps apologise and stay away from Beachy Head.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:39 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
toots wrote:
Whilst on a serious note the normal taxi rants are not going to wash with LC, they must surely expect some flack from the trade, especially on forums where drivers etc feel free to express themselves. Providing it's only a rant and is not threatening I don't see the problem

But we are in the trade and we know 99.999% of those rants are either bluff or banter, I'm not sure the LC realise that.


Behave yourself, these are relatively intelligent people who are reading the forum. They should be glad they're not posting in the Scottish section ffs :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:32 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
But I am reminded by a tale I heard – which is anecdotal and therefore will be of little consequence to our esteemed judges. I met a lady who was in her early 50s at a cab trade meeting I was asked to attend. Smokers in general are sociable types, stepping outside to have cigarettes during meetings is a norm. I got chatting to the lady and she reminded me of one of the reasons why I’m so much against deregulation. She’d driven cabs for as long as me, some 25 years, although she was in a regulated area – she fell into the trade by accident, like so many other people do. After a couple of years she decided to purchase a cab and plate – she paid that one off, driving it herself on nightshift whilst she had a driver on days. The town was booming so when she finally paid for her first cab, she saved some money and got part finance for another. Then tragedy struck, because life is generally like that. Her father was struck down with an illness, followed a year or so later by her mother – she decided to take the job of caring for them full time – she found a couple of decent drivers and rented her cabs out – whilst her parents moved in with her.

Now the obvious question here is what this has to do with the Law Commission or this article. Well, if the cab trade deregulates her second cab isn’t yet paid for – her drivers on both cabs may leave for pastures new – leaving her with two cabs without the income to pay for the cab finance – her only source of income will go – she will then not be able to take care of her parents – who will be presumably carted off to some care home where they become a burden upon the state. She may lose her home. People will rightly draw many different things as a result of the above tale and no doubt some will dismiss the story as a one off – dismiss the story as if this person’s life, and the lives of her parents don’t matter – it’s to be viewed as collateral damage towards the greater good. In the same respect as the Law Commission see taxis as a ‘project’ – as opposed to the human cost and a human face at the end of it. Maybe this is what the Law Commission are actually upset about, the fact that the poster gave a face to an otherwise faceless task? Perhaps someone from the Law Commission can tell the lady I was smoking with “If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen”, I’m sure that will go down really well.

It may be anecdotal, but I believe you. :wink:

However I disagree with your analysis of the situation.

Are you now saying the trade owes everyone not working in the trade a living, just because they once worked in the trade, and their family are in a poor health?

If the lady is a good owner (and they do exist), why would those decent drivers depart to new pastures? Other than they might actually like the idea of owning their own cab without having to pay a large plate premium. :-k

I would guess, and this is anecdotal, that they money she made out of running cab 1 paid for cab 2. I would sooner those profits stayed with the drivers that earnt it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:00 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
It may be anecdotal, but I believe you. :wink:

However I disagree with your analysis of the situation.

Are you now saying the trade owes everyone not working in the trade a living, just because they once worked in the trade, and their family are in a poor health?

If the lady is a good owner (and they do exist), why would those decent drivers depart to new pastures? Other than they might actually like the idea of owning their own cab without having to pay a large plate premium. :-k

I would guess, and this is anecdotal, that they money she made out of running cab 1 paid for cab 2. I would sooner those profits stayed with the drivers that earnt it.



This is going to be one of those where we agree to disagree :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:19 am 
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I hope they're not getting upset because they are getting the same answer:

All PH drivers should have to take a local knowledge test.

If you want to work in a certain area, then you need to be licensed in that area, not use a "trick or a cheat" to operate in that area.

Deregulation, quality control, what ever you may want to call it is bad for the business and bad for the drivers.

And I bet I know who Sussexs little bird is?


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