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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:48 am 
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. . . TACHOGRAPHS ! !

I am very reliably informed by two good sources, that at a meeting on Wednesday in the Greater Manchester area attended by Law Commission representatives and Asian drivers and Asian trade reps only from around the country [one of which was from Brum] that the topic of tachographs in taxis and PHVs was brought up by the Law Commission.

Apparently, this has been generated by responses from the police and their concerns about the long hours some drivers are working.

I was informed about this new development by the Asian trade rep from Brum who attended the meeting when I called him yesterday for a de-brief on the topics discussed at this meeting and I then called one of the meeting's organisers and she too confirmed that tachographs may now be on the Law Commission's deregulatory agenda of legislative reform.

Don't shoot the messenger.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:05 am 
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It is hardly a suprise.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:43 am 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
Apparently, this has been generated by responses from the police and their concerns about the long hours some drivers are working.

Don't many of us share those concerns? :?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:27 am 
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It's about time, IMO it's 10 years to late.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:54 am 
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Nidge2 wrote:
It's about time, IMO it's 10 years to late.



Yeah its an idea that isnt as bad as it seems, it will completely show how useless deregulation is........drivers will simply cherrypick their hours and provide no coverage when there isnt guaranteed earnings. :badgrin:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:31 am 
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Some type of regulation on drivers working hours is well over due

We all have them all in our area's the one's that are allways asleep on the rank??? falling asleep at the traffic lights :roll:
Bragging how many airport runs ive done today two manchesters and a heathrow 600+ miles
One driver even told a L.O. he works a 18 day.
They live on Pro Plus and redbull
The council do have a great deal to answer for issuing plate's because they can and changing the rule's on school contacts allowing PH driver,s doing a nightshift then taking kids to school not good!

The sensible drivers in our parish believe a serious accident is just round the corner then the S**** will hit the fan

The sooner the better for me B.C.Bob (Tacho's that is) 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
Apparently, this has been generated by responses from the police and their concerns about the long hours some drivers are working.

Don't many of us share those concerns? :?


No..only a few.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:40 pm 
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bloodnock wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
Apparently, this has been generated by responses from the police and their concerns about the long hours some drivers are working.

Don't many of us share those concerns? :?


No..only a few.


Don't kid yourself. I think most people on here recognise that the long hours that are all to common in this trade are dangerous, and antisocial. Most don't want to spend almost all of their waking hours sitting in a cab. They'd like to spend time with their families.
They do it because they have to, not because they want to and they know it won't change while everyone else is doing the same.
I'd rather achieve it by means other than tachographs but I see no viable alternative, and more importantly, the powers that be think its out of order. That's why it will happen eventually.

Judging by the deluge of support you're getting, I'd say you are very much in a minority thinking long hours are acceptable.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Law commision,more taxis,less hours sounds like a good plan :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Quote:
Don't kid yourself. I think most people on here recognise that the long hours that are all to common in this trade are dangerous, and antisocial. Most don't want to spend almost all of their waking hours sitting in a cab. They'd like to spend time with their families.
They do it because they have to, not because they want to and they know it won't change while everyone else is doing the same.
I'd rather achieve it by means other than tachographs but I see no viable alternative, and more importantly, the powers that be think its out of order. That's why it will happen eventually.

Judging by the deluge of support you're getting, I'd say you are very much in a minority thinking long hours are acceptable.


I,m no lover of long hours either, but a level head and realistic view of whats needed is not what I have come to expect from any government body. They'll take the easy opt out ans slap you with HGV/BUS driver hours which have no flexibility built into them for the likes of random pickups and unknown destination of your clients, unless they give you a full hour of emergency leeway at day end and a more relaxed sleep allowance it's going to reek havoc for those doing School, NHS or other Contract work where an early start is called for.

If it were 9 hours driving per day with an hour off which can be taken in small units to suit your clients needs, and then possibly 3 days where you drive up to 10 hours with with an hours break then I might warm to it. Its not the long hours I want to retain, Its the flexiblity of how we can use those hours, Be better to have the ability to have a decent days driving in which you can achieve a lot rather than a day carved into so many useless size segments where your frightened to take on work because you cant travel any more than a couple of hours without stopping.

Instead of the Law Comission just mentioning the word TACHOGRAPH without substance, why dont the feed us some detail on what driving hours and rest periods they propose we will be expected to abide by, and then come back and put it to us for some consultation. That might just scunner a few more of you believers once you see just how draconian these hours might be.

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They do it because they have to, not because they want to and they know it won't change while everyone else is doing the same.


That's somewhat flawed, You would only end up with more drivers competing at the busiest times of day to chase the money. If we all only get 8 hours driving then it stands to reason that we are all going to pick the best hours to work. Then come the quieter time clients will be hard pushed to find a vehicle for hire as most of their drivers will have no time left of their shift. And just how long would a shift be? you might have acheived little or no work for having sat at a rank for 8 hours but still have plenty driving hours left in the Tacho, and worse youve made no income. You then might get busier just before you knock off at the end of your quiet day, does that make you any less tired if you sit doing bugger all for 8 hours on a rank and then do several hours of driving later because things picked up.

As I say, Its nothing like HGV or PSV work where your driving because you have a guaranteed run and payment for it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:23 pm 
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I was recently told that a volunteer driver somewhere in South Wales had clocked up 67,000 miles in one year of volunteer driving. This was confirmed by RP of the LC at the Brum trade meeting a week ago.

67,000 miles divided by say 50 weeks [assuming the guy takes 2 weeks holiday a year] = 1,340 miles a week and this is quite probably done on a Monday to Friday basis.

So, 1,340 miles divided by 5 days = 268 miles a day.

Now let us assume that the driver drives at an average speed of 25 mph to take in mainly slow city and suburban roads and some intercity roads too.

So to cover an average of 268 miles a day the driver will need to drive for approximately 10 hours and 40 minutes a day, PLUS any waiting around time when collecting and dropping off his passengers.

Potentially, that driver could be working a 13-16 hour day every day, Monday to Friday.

How is the legislation going to control volunteer drivers doing these types of annual mileages and daily hours worked, when they’re not even licensed, nor need to be?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:25 pm 
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I think we all agree that the more hours we work the more dangerous it is for us all.

However it's also flawed thinking to say that we will earn more money by working extra hours.

Say you work a 10 hour shift, and most of your colleagues do likewise. If you worked a 12 hour shift logically you will earn 20% more.

But those extra hours are eating into your colleagues earnings, so they in-turn have to work more hours to compensate for the work that has been lost to those working extra hours.

So in effect we are all working longer for the same money that we would get if we all worked less hours. :-$

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I think we all agree that the more hours we work the more dangerous it is for us all.

However it's also flawed thinking to say that we will earn more money by working extra hours.

Say you work a 10 hour shift, and most of your colleagues do likewise. If you worked a 12 hour shift logically you will earn 20% more.

But those extra hours are eating into your colleagues earnings, so they in-turn have to work more hours to compensate for the work that has been lost to those working extra hours.

So in effect we are all working longer for the same money that we would get if we all worked less hours. :-$

All agreed, except which hour are you and me going to do?

And are those hours going to be roughly the same?

And if me and you do roughly the same hours, then it's probable that Tom, Dick, Harry, Bill, Ahmed, Jasinder, Bogdan, and Ms Toots will all want to do roughly the same hours as we do too.

And if we're all doing roughly the same hours, who is going to service the other hours, especially when an unexpected situation arises. For instance a train derailment just past a major train station causing all on-going trains to terminate at the given station, only to find no cabs for those who are coming off the trains and want a taxi to complete their journey, instead of waiting for replacement bus services to take them to their final destination station.

It's obvious that if tachographs were introduced, it would create unmet demand at many times of a 24 hour period and significant unmet demand at extraordinary periods, such as described above.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
All agreed, except which hour are you and me going to do?

And are those hours going to be roughly the same?

Over time drivers work the hours they can earn a living out of. But it's a flexible beast.

My point isn't saying some drivers must work X hours, and others work Y hours. It's that when we work extra hours chasing work, it has a side effect of making others also work longer.

If we had a set number of drivers and a set number of punters, then there is a case to say we could work fewer hours and still take the same money.

It would just mean we didn't stop from the time we get into the car to the time we get out.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:33 pm 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
It's obvious that if tachographs were introduced, it would create unmet demand at many times of a 24 hour period and significant unmet demand at extraordinary periods, such as described above.

It would depend on what's the max number of hours we could work.

If it was 12 hours a day it wouldn't cause that much of a problem, other than to the greedy bas****s.

But if it was 8-10 hours then that might cause some problems at the busier times.

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