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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:37 pm 
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Quote:
I'll take the government's money anytime


Quote:
Please do not confuse me with someone who does it for the money


Which one is it you nuggit.... goverment money is our money unless it grows on trees !

Stop wasting taxpayers money and get a proper job.


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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:00 pm 
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fatnuggit wrote:
Ha ha, you got me. I don't know, damned if I do, damned if I don't. Personally I'd rather give free training to someone than charge for it.
I don't believe that drivers should pay for it when it's been free up to now. If there had been a definite timescale, as with say CPCs then maybe, but then a CPC is only £65 every 5 years or so. NVQ averages at £1200. Seems a bit discriminatory to me. But I see what you're saying. I'd just feel a little uncomfortable with it I suppose.


All other trades pay for their own training so why not taxi/ph drivers? Perhaps if it was the drivers that paid only those that saw the trade as a serious prospect would actually join? Drivers would go to training providers based on merit and not on necessity. You could always write your own course and get it qualified and therefore charge what you considered appropriate. There are lots of options other than giving up, if that is what you really believe in :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:27 pm 
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andycable wrote:
Quote:
I'll take the government's money anytime


Quote:
Please do not confuse me with someone who does it for the money


Which one is it you nuggit.... goverment money is our money unless it grows on trees !

Stop wasting taxpayers money and get a proper job.


Like I said, I can't win with you boys, I could stop wasting taxpayers money and get a proper job, like, er, I know driving a cab! You don't pay much tax driving a cab do ya?
But then last time I did it I wasn't earning enough to pay any, in fact I needed tax credits to live. I still don't earn much doing the training although I suppose you know different, but still my conscience is clear.
I'd love to read your submission to the LC, it must be a cracker seeing as you have all the answers.


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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:31 pm 
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andycable wrote:
Quote:
I'll take the government's money anytime


Quote:
Please do not confuse me with someone who does it for the money


Which one is it you nuggit.... goverment money is our money unless it grows on trees !

Stop wasting taxpayers money and get a proper job.




And it's fatnuggit not nuggit thank you. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 7:38 pm
Posts: 34
toots wrote:
fatnuggit wrote:
Ha ha, you got me. I don't know, damned if I do, damned if I don't. Personally I'd rather give free training to someone than charge for it.
I don't believe that drivers should pay for it when it's been free up to now. If there had been a definite timescale, as with say CPCs then maybe, but then a CPC is only £65 every 5 years or so. NVQ averages at £1200. Seems a bit discriminatory to me. But I see what you're saying. I'd just feel a little uncomfortable with it I suppose.


All other trades pay for their own training so why not taxi/ph drivers? Perhaps if it was the drivers that paid only those that saw the trade as a serious prospect would actually join? Drivers would go to training providers based on merit and not on necessity. You could always write your own course and get it qualified and therefore charge what you considered appropriate. There are lots of options other than giving up, if that is what you really believe in :wink:


You gonna pay over a grand for yours?


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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 14151
Location: Wirral
fatnuggit wrote:
toots wrote:
fatnuggit wrote:
Ha ha, you got me. I don't know, damned if I do, damned if I don't. Personally I'd rather give free training to someone than charge for it.
I don't believe that drivers should pay for it when it's been free up to now. If there had been a definite timescale, as with say CPCs then maybe, but then a CPC is only £65 every 5 years or so. NVQ averages at £1200. Seems a bit discriminatory to me. But I see what you're saying. I'd just feel a little uncomfortable with it I suppose.


All other trades pay for their own training so why not taxi/ph drivers? Perhaps if it was the drivers that paid only those that saw the trade as a serious prospect would actually join? Drivers would go to training providers based on merit and not on necessity. You could always write your own course and get it qualified and therefore charge what you considered appropriate. There are lots of options other than giving up, if that is what you really believe in :wink:


You gonna pay over a grand for yours?


Did you not read what I said? Who says it'll be over a grand? Btw I'm as qualified as you :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:54 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
fatnuggit wrote:
once the CBH thing was rejected,

But it wasn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:37 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
fatnuggit wrote:
once the CBH thing was rejected,

But it wasn't.


SOLVING THE CROSS-BORDER HIRE PROBLEMS

Recommendation 11. We recommend that it should be permissible for taxi and PHV licences to include a condition that the vehicle must principally be operated in the licensing district. A similar provision should also be permitted in relation to driver licences. (Paragraph 30)

DfT response: The Government understands the concerns that some have about the present position but is not convinced that this recommendation (which it understands to relate solely to pre-booked hirings, rather than immediate hirings at ranks or by being hailed in the street) is a suitable way of dealing with the cross border issues considered by the Committee.

Such a restriction would work against those operators who were located at the edge of a local authority's area and it would work against those operators who were dedicated to long-distance trips eg airport runs where a large proportion of the distance travelled would be beyond the local authority's border. Operators would end up sending for an out-of-district hiring not the nearest driver, but a driver who had not yet reached his limit on out-of-district journeys—and this would increase dead mileage, with adverse environmental implications. In short, it does not sit neatly with a deregulatory approach to reforming taxi and PHV legislation.

Moreover, a restriction of this nature could confuse and unfairly penalise passengers who would be unable to use the operator of their choice.

On a practical level, it would involve local authorities establishing a whole new tier of enforcement activity—at some cost, which might be added to the licence fee—in order to determine which vehicle owners and which drivers had exceeded their quota of out-of-district hirings.

The Government recognises that the Committee's underlying concern is to avoid the situation where taxi drivers are licensed in the north of the country and then locating themselves in the south of the country in order to undertake pre-booked hirings. The Government would note that there are alternative approaches to that proposed by the Transport Committee, for example, obliging licensed operators to use only vehicles (whether taxi or private hire) licensed by the same local authority as granted their operator licence.

The Government, in proposing this possible alternative approach, is not intending to fetter the Law Commission's discretion in undertaking a comprehensive review of the legislation, it is simply demonstrating that there are various potential means of addressing this particular issue.

The Law Commission will, as part of its review, consider the wider picture including why this is actually happening and propose a way forward in that context.

Recommendation 12. In addition, new legislation should permit local authorities to issue fixed penalty notices to out-of-town drivers where there is evidence, for example, that they have worked, or sought to work, for a specified period of time in that district. Local authorities should also be enabled to prosecute operators in other districts which are routinely sending cars to work in their area. (Paragraph 30)

DfT response: The Government does not agree with this recommendation. For the reasons set out in response to recommendation 11, the Government does not consider that directly restricting the area in which a taxi or PHV driver can pick up passengers by means of a condition attached to his licence is a sensible way of proceeding against the background of a review which has a deregulatory objective at its heart.

The Government believes that fixed penalty notices are best deployed for offences which are objective and where the scope for dispute is minimal (for example a driver either was, or was not, wearing his badge). The question of how many out-of-district journeys a driver might have undertaken as a proportion of his overall total number of journeys would be far from straightforward to determine at any time, and particularly not "on-the-spot".

Recommendation 13. In our view it is essential that local authorities justify their approach to the use of these controls in local transport plans, alert drivers and operators in neighbouring districts to their intention to use such powers; and provide adequate warnings to drivers and operators before issuing fixed penalty notices or initiating prosecutions. (Paragraph 31)

DfT response: The Government does not agree with this specific recommendation as it is not convinced that directly restricting the area in which a driver can accept a pre-booked hiring is a desirable way forward.


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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:40 pm 
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All other trades pay for their own training so why not taxi/ph drivers? Perhaps if it was the drivers that paid only those that saw the trade as a serious prospect would actually join? Drivers would go to training providers based on merit and not on necessity. You could always write your own course and get it qualified and therefore charge what you considered appropriate. There are lots of options other than giving up, if that is what you really believe in :wink:[/quote]

You gonna pay over a grand for yours?[/quote]

Did you not read what I said? Who says it'll be over a grand? Btw I'm as qualified as you :wink:[/quote]

We must know each other then


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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 7:38 pm
Posts: 34
Toots>

We must know each other. I have actually written a course and i'm trying to improve what i'm delivering now but like i said, how much would you pay for yours?


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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Location: Wirral
fatnuggit wrote:
Toots>

We must know each other. I have actually written a course and i'm trying to improve what i'm delivering now but like i said, how much would you pay for yours?


It's really not about how much I would pay for mine, I certainly wouldn't have been happy paying £1,800 for what I did to get my NVQ & Btec and I had a decent provider. I was lucky my Btec/VRQ, NVQ, AI and Ptlls cost me nothing. When you think of the content of a Ptlls certificate you can get for £180-£500 I wouldn't expect the NVQ to cost much more tbh.

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:01 pm 
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If you're as qualified as me then you didn't pay did yer?
But then you got all the answers so none of us should need worry about the LC, it's all in the safe hands of the usual suspects.........


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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:02 pm 
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If people are point us towards the Select Committee they cant have noticed what the select committee actually stated.........presumably if the law commission had taken the stance of being opposed to cross border and in favour of numbers control they would have been our best buddies?

Buts lets look at some of the recommendations of the select committee, even though they have been subbed at half time by the government.

Recommendation 11. We recommend that it should be permissible for taxi and PHV licences to include a condition that the vehicle must principally be operated in the licensing district. A similar provision should also be permitted in relation to driver licences. (Paragraph 30)


This is already the case and has been permitted since the Berwick Court Case........indeed if you scan through TDO you might find that Shropshire Council have been regularly refusing applications for those licensed outside their area. Numerous councils now ask the question on application forms.

So in respect of a recommendation......its a rather crap one?

Recommendation 12. In addition, new legislation should permit local authorities to issue fixed penalty notices to out-of-town drivers where there is evidence, for example, that they have worked, or sought to work, for a specified period of time in that district. Local authorities should also be enabled to prosecute operators in other districts which are routinely sending cars to work in their area. (Paragraph 30)

Anyone agreeing to the above recommendation is an absolute buffoon.

Recommendation 13. In our view it is essential that local authorities justify their approach to the use of these controls in local transport plans, alert drivers and operators in neighbouring districts to their intention to use such powers; and provide adequate warnings to drivers and operators before issuing fixed penalty notices or initiating prosecutions. (Paragraph 31)

Just to prove that the select committee are quite mad, they appear not to realise that in many areas licensing authorities are not responsible for local transport planning or LTP's.

Of course the government response to the recommendation was in many respects equally mad, but we already know that.

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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:08 pm 
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fatnuggit wrote:
If you're as qualified as me then you didn't pay did yer?
But then you got all the answers so none of us should need worry about the LC, it's all in the safe hands of the usual suspects.........


That's a bit of a harsh assessment and I did say I never paid for any of my qualifications. I don't claim to have all the answers either but I do know there is no simple solution to this consultation because everybody has their own version of what they believe is right and many have agendas of their own :wink:

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


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 Post subject: Re: Last Chance Saloon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:46 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
It's fair to say that the Trans Comm didn't fancy cross border hiring much, and tried to suggest ways forward to stop drivers working predominately away from their licensing area.

Now Mr fatnuggit has shown that the DfT weren't best please with that.

However this was the same DfT that weren't best pleased about the Trans Comm having a pop at them over the OFT report.

But did the DfT win that battle? The answer is no.

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