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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Taxis and private hire vehicles - informal targeted consultation.

Sent out by e-mail 7 January 2014
Comments due 17 January 2014


Sent to:
National Association of Licensing and Enforcement Officers
Institute of Licensing
National Private Hire Association
Private Hire Reform Campaign
National Taxi Association
GMB Union
Unite
Button Solicitors


Taxi and PHV proposals for feedback

1.The first proposal is to allow PHV operators licensed in England (outside London) and Wales to sub-contract bookings to an operator licensed in a different district. London PHV operators are allowed to sub-contract to an operator licensed outside London so it would be a case of establishing a more level playing field.


1a - Do you regard this as a measure which would reduce a burden on the PHV trade? If not, what effect do you think it would have, and why?

1b – Could you provide any evidence about the impact this proposal would have, whether by reference to a single operator in a case-study type way, or by reference to a global figure of how the trade will benefit in financial terms by being able to sub-contract across borders?

1c – Do you see any adverse consequences arising from the proposal? If so, please explain.



2.The second proposal seeks to address the law as stated in the case of Benson v Boyce. It is to allow private hire vehicles licensed by a local authority outside London to be driven by a person (e.g. a family member) who does not hold a PHV driver licence when the vehicle is not being used for private hire work i.e. when it is “off-duty”. This is the position in London so again, it would be a case of establishing a more level playing field as between London and the rest of England and Wales.


2a - Do you regard this as a measure which would reduce a burden on the PHV trade? If not, what effect do you think it would have, and why?

2b – Could you provide any evidence about the impact this proposal would have, whether by reference to a single owner-driver who, for example, had to acquire a second vehicle as the family car or by reference to a global figure of how the trade will benefit in financial terms by being able allow others to use their vehicle when it is “off-duty”?

2c – Do you see any adverse consequences arising from the proposal? If so, please explain.

2d – Do you have any feel for what proportion of PHV owners currently own second cars? If the legislation was changed in this way, how many would no longer want to have a second car – i.e. how many would use the PHV as the “family car”?



3.The third proposal is to make it explicit in the legislation applying to taxis and PHVs outside London that taxi and PHV driver licences should be issued for a standard period of three years (and PHV operator licences five years) and licences should only be granted for shorter periods in the circumstances of an individual case (eg probation/monitoring or where the driver asks for a short-term seasonal licence).


3a - Do you regard this as a measure which would reduce a burden on the taxi and PHV trades? If not, what effect do you think it would have, and why?

3b – Could you provide any evidence about the impact this proposal would have, particularly in terms of cost-savings for drivers and operators?

3c – Do you see any adverse consequences arising from the proposal? If so, please explain.

3d – If you are in a position to offer any information about licence durations and licence fees, it would be helpful if you could fill out the following table

Driver licence - Current licence length ------- Current licence fee


Operator licence - Current licence length ------- Current licence fee


If proposal 3 was brought in, what proportion of licences do you anticipate would be of short term duration?



Please e-mail this completed form to pippaA.brown@dft.gsi.gov.uk by Friday 17 January 2014

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:54 pm 
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Alex wrote:
Sent out by e-mail 7 January 2014
Comments due 17 January 2014

Is this timescale a joke?

How are the selected few meant to contact the people they represent to enable them to respond properly on behalf of those members?

It's fine for one of the select few, as all he has to do is ring up a firm in Merseyside, and one in the North East, to receive his orders, but the unions need to do things in line with their rule books, and seven days is an insult. [-X

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:57 pm 
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Alex wrote:
National Association of Licensing and Enforcement Officers
Institute of Licensing
National Private Hire Association
Private Hire Reform Campaign
National Taxi Association
GMB Union
Unite
Button Solicitors

Is that it?

The Law Commission received 3,000 responses, yet the DfT are only asking 8 of them on these new proposals.

Are the other 2,992 just the dirt on someone's shoe? :sad:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:11 pm 
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Alex wrote:
1.The first proposal is to allow PHV operators licensed in England (outside London) and Wales to sub-contract bookings to an operator licensed in a different district. London PHV operators are allowed to sub-contract to an operator licensed outside London so it would be a case of establishing a more level playing field.

In whose mind is this a major problem? Because in the real world this isn't.

Some of the Barons might feel aggrieved that they can't use vehicles from outside their local area that have lower entry standards, but f*** em. Councils have entry criteria to meet their local needs, not the Baron's bank accounts.

I simply cannot understand how the DfT have been mugged off by the 'what happens when a car breaks down' issue', as it never happens. Even if it did the driver just rings a cab himself, or the office books a taxi. It's a big con spread by people who only have their self importance or fat guts to feed.

As for London PH once again being held up as a beacon, will those beacon holders please remind everyone how many people are raped in London PHVs each year, and/or how many drivers don't renew their licenses (40%)?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:59 am 
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Sussex wrote:
Alex wrote:
Sent out by e-mail 7 January 2014
Comments due 17 January 2014

Is this timescale a joke?

How are the selected few meant to contact the people they represent to enable them to respond properly on behalf of those members?

It's fine for one of the select few, as all he has to do is ring up a firm in Merseyside, and one in the North East, to receive his orders, but the unions need to do things in line with their rule books, and seven days is an insult. [-X


That would be 10 days, but, doesn't make the point any less important :wink: All the other points are well made too. I have to agree that holding London up as a fine example is a bit of a joke when it comes to ph.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:35 am 
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toots wrote:
I have to agree that holding London up as a fine example is a bit of a joke when it comes to ph.

It isn't really holding London's PH up. It is the system they work under that is being used as the example.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:35 am 
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What the DfT have also missed is the fact that if you don't bring the act in as one there are consequences for the bits they do implement piece meal.

The issue of cross border, which the Barons want to bin, is fine if national standards apply, but the Barons don't want national standards, they just want s*** standards.

I'm frankly amazed how easy they have mugged off the DfT.

The issues do about partners driving licensed vehicles, and the change to 3 yearly licenses do have merits, but the piece meal pitfalls on those are the drop in income to LOs will lead to less enforcement.

This will lead to an increase in illegal hirings and a situation where those doing the iffy stuff have far less chance to be caught at it.

In short, do the act in one go and stop pi**ing around the edges.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:43 am 
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grandad wrote:
toots wrote:
I have to agree that holding London up as a fine example is a bit of a joke when it comes to ph.

It isn't really holding London's PH up. It is the system they work under that is being used as the example.



The system they use causes the problems in London. As for being able to sub contract I don't see the issue Cabfind and the like have been doing it for years without any form of licence.

Sussex wrote:
In short, do the act in one go and stop pi**ing around the edges.


Faced with the possibility of the Act not getting passed in time they have obviously opted to get through the bits the brown envelope paid for :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:39 pm 
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Unless these bodies have had changes in policies since they responded to the LC then this is a pretty pointless and lazy exercise.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:25 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Unless these bodies have had changes in policies since they responded to the LC then this is a pretty pointless and lazy exercise.

But the DfT can tick a box. ](*,)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:55 pm 
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Quote:
Sent to:
National Association of Licensing and Enforcement Officers
Institute of Licensing
National Private Hire Association
Private Hire Reform Campaign
National Taxi Association
GMB Union
Unite
Button Solicitors


Who the f*ck is the Private Hire Reform Campaign?

I puts "Private Hire Reform Campaign" into google and gets this:

http://www.streamline.travel/Invitationemail.html

I click the link to the PHRC website;

http://phrc.org.uk/

and gets........

Registered by 123-reg

This domain has been registered on behalf of a client by 123-reg.co.uk. If you would like to register your own domain name, visit 123-reg for domain names search and registration.



ffs are the DfT really so f*cking stupid they actually believe the sh*te of PH barons from the NE of England???????

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:22 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Quote:
Sent to:
National Association of Licensing and Enforcement Officers
Institute of Licensing
National Private Hire Association
Private Hire Reform Campaign
National Taxi Association
GMB Union
Unite
Button Solicitors


Who the f*ck is the Private Hire Reform Campaign?

I puts "Private Hire Reform Campaign" into google and gets this:

http://www.streamline.travel/Invitationemail.html

I click the link to the PHRC website;

http://phrc.org.uk/

and gets........

Registered by 123-reg

This domain has been registered on behalf of a client by 123-reg.co.uk. If you would like to register your own domain name, visit 123-reg for domain names search and registration.



ffs are the DfT really so f*cking stupid they actually believe the sh*te of PH barons from the NE of England???????


More likely they believe in the size of their bungs :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:47 am 
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It would appear far from disliking the Berwick type approach to taxi licensing, in fact the DfT are proposing a Berwick type approach for PH licensing.

So the first thing the DfT do in 2014 is promote Barons searching the country looking for the lowest entry criteria, and then they will be able to reallocate them to their back yards and work them from their local offices.

One wonders what happened to that 'local agenda' that we used to get quoted from the likes of the DfT. :---)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:14 am 
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Sussex wrote:
It would appear far from disliking the Berwick type approach to taxi licensing, in fact the DfT are proposing a Berwick type approach for PH licensing.

So the first thing the DfT do in 2014 is promote Barons searching the country looking for the lowest entry criteria, and then they will be able to reallocate them to their back yards and work them from their local offices.

One wonders what happened to that 'local agenda' that we used to get quoted from the likes of the DfT. :---)


If they bring in national standards for private hire they won't need to relocate anything. With national standards and one phone number private will be able to operate anywhere in the country anyway

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:45 am 
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The Barons will get what they paid for. This whole country is corrupt or hasn't anyone noticed?

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