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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:11 pm 
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Wouldn't be surprised if there's a rash of these articles from the local perspective, so probably little point in posting the all.

CCTV cameras could be coming to all Norfolk taxis

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/c ... -1-5888019

Taxi companies could be forced to install CCTV under measures to bring licensing laws that differ widely across Norfolk up to date.

Compulsory cameras are among the recommendations of a government report that claims current taxi and private hire laws are “not fit for the modern world”. Some current laws date back to 1847.

The Department for Transport commissioned report urges government legislation to bring in minimum standards for all taxi and private-hire drivers. It recommends tightening rules on everything from security measures to criminal record checks and setting up a national database for drivers.

The report follows high profile cases like the sex abuse scandals in towns such as Rotherham and Rochdale and the London black cab rapist John Worboys.

Norfolk taxi owners and drivers have welcomed the extra security CCTV cameras would bring.

Sibi Kuttiparichel, director of Norwich-based Goldstar Taxis, said: “We have dashcams in all our cars and most of our drivers would like to have CCTV inside as well. It would protect both the customers and our drivers. When someone is being recorded they are perhaps more likely to behave better and also if anyone is blaming the drivers for something we would be able to check that back too.”

Bruce Davis, a driver with A2B Taxis, said: “I’d be all for it because it is extra security for both drivers and passengers. Some drivers have cameras, some don’t but the cameras tend not to be looking into the interior of the taxi. There is an issue there because we are then getting into the realms of data protection, protecting identities and privacy. It opens up a bit of a minefield.”

Licences for taxis and private hire vehicles - or minicabs - are issued by unitary, borough or district councils but in Norfolk the current advice and rules on CCTV vary widely.

South Norfolk Council says CCTV facing the interior of the vehicle is not permitted, while in Great Yarmouth the operator must obtain approval from the council.

In King’s Lynn & West Norfolk CCTV cameras have to face outward and must not record audio sound unless the owner gets written permission and is registered with the Information Commissioners Office.

A Norwich City Council spokesman said there are no specific CCTV conditions on its licence but any camera use would have to comply with the requirements of the Information Commission.

Broadland Council says drivers need written approval for interior cameras for the purposes of “personal safety and as a deterrent only” and signs warning passengers need to be installed.

But the council adds: “The legislation relating to the provision of CCTV in licensed vehicles is currently under review. These conditions are therefore subject to change following the introduction of any relevant legislation.”

The government report was completed by the Task and Finish Group on Taxi and Private Hire Vehicle Licensing in September. The group’s chairman, Prof Mohammed Abdel-Haq, states: “Only a small number of licensing authorities in England currently require CCTV in their licensed vehicles; however, there is a strong case for having CCTV in taxis and private hire vehicles, and licensing authorities which do not already mandate CCTV should do so.”

The report’s 34 recommendations also include the ability to take action against “out-of-area” drivers; new guidance on what convictions are grounds for refusing or revoking a licence; and a “cap” on the number of taxi and private hire licences in each council area.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:15 pm 
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Sibi Kuttiparichel, director of Norwich-based Goldstar Taxis, said: “We have dashcams in all our cars and most of our drivers would like to have CCTV inside as well. It would protect both the customers and our drivers. When someone is being recorded they are perhaps more likely to behave better and also if anyone is blaming the drivers for something we would be able to check that back too.”

So what's to stop drivers installing it now if Norwich Council hasn't banned them?


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South Norfolk Council says CCTV facing the interior of the vehicle is not permitted...


Quote:
In King’s Lynn & West Norfolk CCTV cameras have to face outward and must not record audio sound unless the owner gets written permission and is registered with the Information Commissioners Office.

So is it common for councils to actually *ban* inward facing cameras?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:26 am 
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So what's to stop driver installing it now if Norwich Council hasn't banned them?

IMO other than stupidity nothing.

However my experience of the trade is that until drivers/owners are told to do something, more times than not they wont.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:27 am 
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So is it common for councils to actually *ban* inward facing cameras?

Not sure it's common, but clearly we have councils who ban CCTV in cars yet no doubt have dozens of cameras in their premises.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:03 am 
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my main issue would be twofold

1) if these are "encrypted" so only councils and police can view the images they will be no good for insurance

2) my knowledge of the workings of CCTV would suggest that the cameras would more likely only be accessed only if the complaint was against the driver if something happens to you usually they refuse to review the CCTV unless you spend £10K plus getting a court to order the footage to be released

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:31 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
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So what's to stop driver installing it now if Norwich Council hasn't banned them?

IMO other than stupidity nothing.

However my experience of the trade is that until drivers/owners are told to do something, more times than not they wont.


What's the betting they're hoping that if it's made compulsory they'll be thinking there's some kind of grant in the offing?

Probably not so keen if they have to pay for it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:53 pm 
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Bang on cue, see the article about the council paying for compulsory CCTV in Warrington :shock:

Somehow can't see this being universal though, even assuming it does happen in Warrington.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:50 pm 
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1) if these are "encrypted" so only councils and police can view the images they will be no good for insurance

Nothing stopping insurance companies requesting footage from the police. Happens now in a number of cases.

However I don't have an issue with insurance companies having direct access to the footage, provided it's requested in a formal manner from the data controller.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:53 pm 
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2) my knowledge of the workings of CCTV would suggest that the cameras would more likely only be accessed only if the complaint was against the driver if something happens to you usually they refuse to review the CCTV unless you spend £10K plus getting a court to order the footage to be released

No.

There is nothing stopping any of us making a complaint against someone to the police, and they can request footage to help their investigations.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:58 am 
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Sussex wrote:
Quote:
2) my knowledge of the workings of CCTV would suggest that the cameras would more likely only be accessed only if the complaint was against the driver if something happens to you usually they refuse to review the CCTV unless you spend £10K plus getting a court to order the footage to be released

No.

There is nothing stopping any of us making a complaint against someone to the police, and they can request footage to help their investigations.



we have had CCTV covering our town for 25 years in that time I have made around 8 or 9 complaints to the police which would be a very open and shut case if CCTV were accessed crimes mostly criminal damage (tyres slashed) traffic collisions minor assaults and on all occasions the reply from the police was NO CCTV FOOTAGE AVAILABLE

police only access CCTV IF it is a serious crime such as rape ,murder or someone is critically injured in hospital after a fight because the council charges very high fees for access to the footage and there is a cost benefit type of calculation i.e. the police have to get authorisation to spend money obtaining the footage and there is a level of crime below which it is not considered serious enough to warrant it

If the driver or company was allowed to be the data controller that wouldn't be an issue as footage could be readily made available to the police at NO CHARGE

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:07 pm 
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If the driver or company was allowed to be the data controller that wouldn't be an issue as footage could be readily made available to the police at NO CHARGE

I suspect the council will be the data controller, but the likes of you or the installer will be the data administrator.

The police will have nothing to do with it.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:21 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Quote:
If the driver or company was allowed to be the data controller that wouldn't be an issue as footage could be readily made available to the police at NO CHARGE

I suspect the council will be the data controller, but the likes of you or the installer will be the data administrator.

The police will have nothing to do with it.



If the proprietor buys and installs the the CCTV when asked the question to the Commissioner the answer was the TAXI proprietor is the Date Controller


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:30 pm 
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If the proprietor buys and installs the the CCTV when asked the question to the Commissioner the answer was the TAXI proprietor is the Date Controller

I suspect the law/guidance will be written in a way that individual proprietors will not be able to be their own data controller.

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