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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:09 pm 
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Nothing particularly new here for anyone who's read the judgement or the TaxiPoint article, but this is the first article in the mainstream press, as far as I can see.

And this article seems to confuse (or conflate) the Supreme Court employment status judgement with the ruling on the London VAT position. But of course the two issues are related, but decided in two different actions.

Probably more such pieces in the Sundays...


Minicab fares set to rise sharply after court VAT ruling

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/0 ... at-ruling/

Uber goes to High Court to obtain verdict on whether tax should be added to fares in Merseyside

Passengers are set to see fares rise sharply after Uber won a legal move that could lead to minicab firms having to charge VAT.

Uber went to the High Court to obtain a ruling on whether VAT should be added to fares in the Merseyside area for the first time.

The case could have wider ramifications, with Uber likely to seek to have the VAT requirement extended to the entire private minicab industry throughout England and Wales.

Operators say this will have a huge impact on vulnerable passengers, who rely on their services to get around.

Argued minicabs should be exempt

Liverpool-based Delta Taxis had argued that minicab journeys should be exempt from VAT, in line with trains and buses.

But Hon Mrs Justice Foster ruled on Friday that HMRC should be able to collect VAT from minicab fares if it wants to.

Delta is now considering appealing against the ruling.

Layla Barke-Jones, a partner in the dispute resolution team at the law firm Aaron & Partners, which acted on behalf of the group of Liverpool-based minicab firms, including Delta Taxis, said: “Without a doubt, the case has the potential to cause significantly increased costs that will hit passengers everywhere at the time of a cost-of-living crisis.

“Delta had hoped to protect passengers from such an impact, and will now call on Government to make private-hire taxi journeys zero-rated for tax purposes, in line with other forms of transport like buses and trains, to prevent this impact on some of the most vulnerable in society for whom private hire taxis can be the only form of transport available to them.”

She added: “We are disappointed at the outcome and are taking time to consider and reflect upon the judgment. We respect the judge’s findings but are considering the impact with our client including whether to appeal.”

‘Heavily influenced’ by previous case

Ms Barke-Jones said the outcome had been “heavily influenced” by a previous case relating to private-hire vehicles operating in London, which Uber was also involved in.

The Supreme Court ruled that Uber’s drivers were not self-employed, as the firm argued, but were workers and that the firm was therefore liable to pay VAT on the fares they collected.

Uber now wants that principle extended to other minicab operators, with Justice Foster’s ruling predicted to boost its chances.

Ms Barke-Jones said: “It is important to remember that this case was not about Delta’s tax liability but the potential for HMRC to require Delta to collect VAT for HMRC.

“VAT is charged to the passengers and passed to the Government. Delta’s stance in this case has been to try to protect the passengers. Given the potential for such large fare increases this now requires urgent government action to prevent VAT from being charged on private-hire fares.”

Uber has not commented on the ruling.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:13 pm 
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The Telegraph wrote:
Uber has not commented on the ruling.

For what it's worth, Uber were quoted thus in the Telegraph article:

TaxiPoint wrote:
An Uber spokesperson said: “Today’s judgment resolves a major inconsistency in the way that rules have been applied for private hire operators across England and Wales. But whilst it clarifies many key points, there remain questions on VAT and what passengers should pay.”


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:21 pm 
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Quote:
Liverpool-based Delta Taxis had argued that minicab journeys should be exempt from VAT, in line with trains and buses.


I wonder for how long this has been the view of this company?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:57 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Quote:
Liverpool-based Delta Taxis had argued that minicab journeys should be exempt from VAT, in line with trains and buses.


I wonder for how long this has been the view of this company?



since 1968 perhaps ?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:04 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
captain cab wrote:
Quote:
Liverpool-based Delta Taxis had argued that minicab journeys should be exempt from VAT, in line with trains and buses.


I wonder for how long this has been the view of this company?



since 1968 perhaps ?


I think perhaps 2023 :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:23 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Quote:
Liverpool-based Delta Taxis had argued that minicab journeys should be exempt from VAT, in line with trains and buses.


I wonder for how long this has been the view of this company?

Since the Uber Supreme Court judgement.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:23 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Since the Uber Supreme Court judgement.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:01 am 
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I sometimes wonder if I am the only idiot who account for VAT on the whole of all fares.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:48 pm 
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I used to account for VAT on all my fares when I was a PH operator. What operators forget is that they can claim the VAT back on everything they buy in, so the increase in fares shouldn't make that much difference.

Their business model has been flawed ever since the introduction of the Renault Dauphine mini-cabs in London in the early 1960s.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 4:51 pm 
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roythebus wrote:
I used to account for VAT on all my fares when I was a PH operator. What operators forget is that they can claim the VAT back on everything they buy in, so the increase in fares shouldn't make that much difference.

Their business model has been flawed ever since the introduction of the Renault Dauphine mini-cabs in London in the early 1960s.

The difference was always about 10%. if fact you can go on a VAT system that will make it easier. It is the fixed rate system and for Private Hire I think it is 10.5% of your revenue.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:39 pm 
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grandad wrote:
I sometimes wonder if I am the only idiot who account for VAT on the whole of all fares.

No your not.

I would be amazed if any medium or large firm undertaking contract work doesn't do exactly what you do.

A mate of mine is a two-man band doing a government contract and he charges them 20% VAT on every invoice.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:17 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
I sometimes wonder if I am the only idiot who account for VAT on the whole of all fares.

No your not.

I would be amazed if any medium or large firm undertaking contract work doesn't do exactly what you do.

A mate of mine is a two-man band doing a government contract and he charges them 20% VAT on every invoice.

It is easy if the company you are dealing with is also VAT registered. The issue is with day to day jobs with joe public which I have to account for VAT but one man band down the road doesn't so if we were both in a hackney he would be making a lot more from the job than me.

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