Taxi Driver Online

Not much particularly new here, although still worth a read - in fact, very similar to the Aberdeen application and very similar issues, such as the same knowledge for HCs and PHDs, the ban on bringing in cross-border cars etc, a mixed saloon/WAV HC fleet, blah, blah.

And Dundee's Courier now part of the same newspaper group as Aberdeen's Press and Journal, and I think there's been some journalistic co-operation between the two for the various articles.

But I don't think Dundee's knowledge etc quite so stiff as Aberdeen's, and don't think the 'taxi' shortage quite of the same magnitude. And although the press coverage has been very similar, I don't think it's been nearly so relentless in the Courier as compared to the P&J. And, with hindsight, I think the Aberdeen campaign was very anti-taxi (and also included the wider business community, which I don't think was evident in Dundee).

Anyway, perhaps the most important take from this piece is to confirm what was evident in Aberdeen to us anoraks - it's more about purely legal issues rather than so many people thinking it's some kind of political popularity contest.


Uber granted licence to run in Dundee in major shake-up for city’s taxi industry

Councillors said there were "no legal grounds" to refuse the application.

Uber has been granted a licence to run in Dundee in what is set to be a major shake-up for the city’s taxi industry.

Councillors approved the global firm’s application to operate an office from the Flour Mill complex on Commercial Street.

It came despite concerns being raised by existing taxi drivers.

Councillor Stewart Hunter, the council’s licensing committee convener, said there were “no legal grounds” to refuse the licence.

‘No grounds for refusal’ of Uber Dundee licence

He said: “The licensing committee considered Uber’s application last week and objectors from the local taxi trade were able to raise their concerns at the meeting.

“Of the concerns raised which were valid, it was clear that they were covered by the local conditions that all booking offices must adhere to and Uber was happy to accept those conditions.

“On that basis, there were no legal grounds for refusal.”

The application was lodged by Uber Scot Limited, which has two directors – Andrew Brem, the UK general manager of Uber, and Neil McGonigle, Uber’s head of driver.

Uber drivers will still need to go through the relevant police checks and background reports before running vehicles in the city.

Although no official launch date has been revealed, Uber plans to launch in Dundee later this year.

When news of the application was revealed, dozens of locals welcomed the move.

Locals welcome plans for Uber to run in Dundee

Posting on The Courier’s Facebook page, Marlene Roberts wrote: “Great idea and may bring down prices that have gone up unreasonably lately.”

David Mason said: “Not having to go to the cash machine at 3am so I can get some (money)… be great.”

Elaine Marr wrote on the Evening Telegraph Facebook page: We pre-ordered our taxi for a function – despite doing this I had to call them only to be told they didn’t have my booking! (The) quicker Uber comes here the better!”

Marcelle Harper posted: “At last – been using Uber in nearly every other city we travel to and it is great to be able to track your car etc.”

Taxi drivers ‘disappointed’ as Uber Dundee licence approved

However, Chris Elder, who represents several current taxi drivers through Unite the Union, says he is “disappointed” with the council’s decision.

He said: “There were quite a few objections raised to Uber moving into the city.

“There should have been an impact assessment carried out to see how this will affect the current drivers.

“Over the years we’ve worked tirelessly with the council to set fees and provide correct training for drivers.

“Uber are just going to be steamrolling through that now.

“All the concerns remain for us: cross-border hiring, premium charges and the cut of fares the company will take from drivers.”

A spokesperson for Uber said: “This decision will help boost earning opportunities for drivers, provide passengers with greater transport options across the city and support the local economy.

‘All drivers will have access to industry-leading worker rights’

“All drivers will have access to industry-leading worker rights such as holiday pay and a pension, as well as formal representation through GMB Union.”

A spokesman for the local authority said: “An application to Dundee City Council’s licensing committee from Uber to establish an office in the city was granted.”

The Courier has previously examined whether Dundee is ready to welcome Uber.

Earlier this month, Uber was also granted permission to operate in Aberdeen.

Correct.

I wonder if he can share those thoughts with less knowledgeable councillors.

Some of us aren't fans of Uber, but the law is the law.

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IDFIMH

A clear example of why drivers that don't offer card payment are costing us all work.

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IDFIMH

Be in no doubt a significant number of current drivers will join up with Uber.

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IDFIMH

Nothing much here, other than the usual nonsense. And nothing about how the likes of surge-pricing might work - since PHVs in Dundee have meters fitted (or at least those working for the 'taxi' firms do) then the meters will have to come out, since in Scotland if a meter is fitted to a PHV then it becomes an HC for fare purposes, essentially.


Council chief responds to safety check concerns over new Dundee Uber drivers

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/du ... addressed/

The approval of the firm's licence has split opinion

A senior councillor has moved to address concerns about safety checks on new Dundee Uber drivers.

The global taxi firm is expected to be up and running in the city later this year after securing a licence.

Many have welcomed the news – but some have expressed concerns about the vetting of the drivers.

Posting on the Dundee breaking news, weather and traffic updates Facebook group, Phil Moston said: “A licence to all unscrupulous operators to make a lot of money at the expense of normal taxi operators.”

Maureen Crighton posted: “Scary anyone can drive them, no security check – an accident waiting to happen. Scandalous.”

Dundee Uber drivers ‘to face same scrutiny as other taxi firms’

While Robert McIntyre wrote: “People saying great news until they see the surcharging on Saturday nights whilst being driven in a car and by a driver with no safety checks.”

Councillor Stewart Hunter, who convenes the council’s licensing committee, insists Uber drivers will face the same scrutiny as any other taxi workers.

He said: “One of the conditions of the licence that was granted is that all of their drivers must be licensed by Dundee City Council, so they will be exactly the same as every other taxi firm in the city.”

Other locals have welcomed the arrival of Uber in Dundee.

Richard Barrie said: “Taxi service is brutal now in Dundee.

“Maybe a chance of getting home and out in an evening has just increased.

“If the taxi drivers are (afraid) of this, then up your game. Competition was needed.”

Lewis Woods wrote “About time. Used it for years living in London. Absolutely no issues ever. I’m hopeful.”

Pam Glass posted: “The lack of taxis late at night puts me off going into the town centre for a night out.

“Also booking in advance is unreliable – sometimes turning up half an hour after the time asked for, which is useless.

“Any experiences I’ve had using Uber in London and Glasgow have been positive.

“You pay on booking, you have a record of the taxi and driver, and they turn up where and when you expect.”

The Courier has taken a closer look at whether Dundee is ready to welcome Uber.

The final sentence there is just a reference to an older article that was on here before, and not a new piece.

This is a few days old now, and wasn't going to post it on here, but it kept coming into my head for some reason

But it's slightly odd, in both good and bad ways. Certainly different in that it's unusual for a local/regional press piece. But it's a tad scattergun as regards what issues it covers, and there's the usual terminology stuff.

Methinks someone has been Googling


7 Uber controversies as global giant arrives in Dundee

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/busines ... in-dundee/

We run through some of Uber's biggest controversies - on issues ranging from pricing to safety.

undee’s taxi industry is preparing to face a major shake-up after Uber confirmed it will be arriving in Tayside.

Councillors have granted the sometimes controversial global company – which offers ridesharing, food delivery and freight transport services – a taxi licence in the city.

Uber already carries passengers around Edinburgh and Glasgow.

And it has suggested it could start operating taxis in Dundee later this year.

Its business model is based on a ride-hailing app that allows customers to call a taxi by entering their journey information.

Uber rides are requested via the app, with updates provided on their estimated arrival and current location.

They can also learn about nearby drivers’ names, model of car and even ratings from other customers.

As expected there have been mixed reactions to the news that Uber is bringing this service to Dundee.

Uber has also previously faced criticism for the way it operates and decisions that the company has made.

Here are seven times the company has been caught up in controversy.

1. Price hike scandal

The company has faced controversy for how much it charges for fares in the past.

The firm was criticised for hiking prices in New York during Hurricane Sandy in November 2012.

Much of the city’s public transport was badly affected by the extreme weather and some fares were doubled due to Uber’s “surge” pricing system.

Uber’s “dynamic pricing model” can prove controversial in of itself.

This means your taxi ride home on a busy Saturday night in Dundee is likely to hit your pockets harder.

2. Public safety

Safety concerns have previously been raised about Uber’s services and the effectiveness of its background checks on drivers. And it is facing many related lawsuits in the US.

In 2019, the company reminded its drivers to seek verification after a South Carolina student is alleged to have been murdered after getting into the wrong car after mistaking it for an Uber.

This followed a CNN investigation in 2018 that revealed more than 100 Uber drivers were facing accusations of sexual assaults and abuse.

An Uber spokesperson told the US broadcaster: “We are committed to doing more.

“Sexual assault is a horrible crime that has no place anywhere.

“While Uber is not immune to this societal issue, we want to be part of the solution to end this violence forever.”

In April this year Uber also introduced more safety features.

These include live location sharing and PIN verification for customers.

All Uber drivers will need to go through relevant police checks and background reports before operating vehicles in the city.

The company has a number of guidelines which focus on women’s safety.

3. Black cab drivers rail against Uber in London

Uber already operates in 59 cities and towns across the country.

This includes London and earlier this year almost 11,000 of the city’s taxi drivers launched a £250 million legal case against the company.

They accused Uber of breaching the UK capital’s taxi booking rules to help it gain a licence, taking direct bookings instead of using a central system.

The case focuses on the period between 2012 and 2018 – and the black cabbies have claimed Uber deliberately misled Transport for London.

An Uber spokesperson told BBC News that the claims were “completely unfounded” and that it “operates lawfully in London.”

4. Uber in hot water over pay

Uber has also found itself facing controversy over the rates it offers to its workers.

Each city it operates in has a minimum payment per ride in place.

And drivers’ fees can increase during periods of high demand.

In March, the company threatened to leave Minneapolis after the city council there put a minimum pay order of $5 (£3.95) per ride in place.

And in April around 100 drivers in Birmingham (UK) took strike action after claiming they had experienced a reduction in pay. Other British cities also saw strikes on Valentine’s Day.

At the time Uber insisted that their drivers all received the National Living Wage and holiday pay.

5. Rubbing private taxi owners up the wrong way

The company has faced the wrath of other taxi drivers across the world as well.

In March, it agreed to a A$271.8m (£140m) pay out after it was accused of moving “aggressively” into Australia.

The action was first taken by around 8,000 taxi drivers in 2019.

They alleged Uber had caused them to lose earnings.

This was one of several occasions when competing drivers have protested against the company’s practices.

An Uber statement said: “Uber has made significant contributions into various state-level taxi compensation schemes.”

Uber won a similar lawsuit filed by 2,500 French taxi drivers in December 2023.

6. Self-driving

Uber has used self-driving vehicles in the United States, but it will likely be a while until these arrive in Dundee.

The company faced a backlash in 2018 when a self-driving Uber struck and killed a pedestrian.

An Uber driver was behind the wheel, but was watching television instead of monitoring the car.

This was the first recorded death involving a self-driving vehicle.

Uber reached a settlement with the victim’s family less than two weeks after her death. The company did not face criminal charges.

7. Drivers displeased with commission rates

Another aspect of Uber-related pay controversy surrounds the amount of commission it takes.

One instance of this was in December 2022 when around 300 taxi drivers demonstrated against the rates in Bristol.

The Bristol United Private Hire Drivers union claimed Uber were receiving more than 50% in commission from fares.

But the company estimated the average is nearer 25% and said it doesn’t pocket 50%.

Well there's one of the terminology clangers for a start - that presumably means the mainstream/established/legacy trade, however you want to describe it. But presumably it's the trade in terms of the joint HC/PH industry, particularly in the likes of Dundee, where the offices are mixed fleet.

As for the issues, no point going through all the above with a fine tooth comb. But interesting what's missed out, and how some of the above is approached.

For example, you'd think the UK employment status battle all the way to the Supreme Court would be mentioned, while it's only indirectly dealt with above. Ditto the TfL 'fit and proper' stuff. And the ongoing VAT battle

And as regards the likes of Dundonians intending to use Uber, some stuff about the scenic route charges and the like that are often featured in the UK press elsewhere might be interesting, if a tad sensationalist. And, of course, the likes of the fake soiling charge scam

Or the likes of the Uber driver in Glasgow who run over and killed his fare, as reported recently

And, from the drivers' perspective, maybe some of the driver ID stuff and the HMRC stuff for the tech platforms. But, of course, that might put off some of the drivers who intend to use an, er, 'family badge' and who might not like the extra HMRC scrutiny

so are local drivers falling over themselves to sign up or will this be a case of bringing drivers in from outside the area then ?

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lack of modern legislation is the iceberg sinking the titanic of the transport sector

Heard a few dozen, which doesn't seem much, but I think Uber's target just 50 or so?

But I doubt if anyone knows precisely at this stage, apart from Uber. But there are only 180 or so PHVs in Dundee, as opposed to 500 HCs, or something like that. Knew PH numbers weren't huge, and were less than the HCs, but I thought there would be a few more than that

(And, of course, apart from everything else, the EV spec for new PH plates won't help Uber recruit new blood...)


Yes, they'll be commuting from Wolverhampton, just like in the Lakes

It's not unusual for Uber to subsidise the vehicles they need. Fella I know has a WAV on Uber and they subsidise that WAV to the tune of £180 a week, and a fiver for every WAV job he does.

Basically it covers the cost of the vehicle and insurance.

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IDFIMH