Taxi Driver Online

Couldn't be bothered reading the council papers linked to at the bottom, so not sure if this is just going through the motions, and they're just considering the petition because they're duty bound, or if there's a serious move on to cap PHCs

But that's because there's not much meat here to suggest that it's a serious move, but who knows?

I mean, from the kick off and the 'rideshare' nonsense in the headline, it's all a bit confusing. They'll obviously be considering a SUD survey for the HCs, but that's all conflated with the PH stuff below, and it's not really clear which is which at times - they refer to 'overprovision' of 'taxis', while that's (presumably) a reference to HCs rather than PHCs, and thus the test is actually SUD, and not overprovision, which is the new test for the PHC cap

And apart from that a lot of this is rehash from the petition stuff etc, but because of the headline etc then it maybe warrants a new thread here


Cap on Edinburgh rideshare and other private hire cars to be considered

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/ed ... e-32203517

On Friday, councillors will consider whether to cap the number of private hire licences issued in the city, which could limit the numbers of Uber and Bolt cars on city streets

The number of taxi licences in Edinburgh is set to be reviewed as a council committee considers a petition by cabbies to limit the amount of private hire cars on the streets.

According to council papers published ahead of a meeting of the Regulatory Committee on Friday, council officers have completed a procurement process for a survey of taxi demand.

Conducted every three years, the survey aims to evaluate the demand for taxi services in the city, in order to ensure enough taxi licences are available.

At present, there is a limit of 1,316 licences in the city, with 1,105 in use – meaning 211 are available to be granted to new drivers.

The city’s last review of the number of licences found that there was not an overprovision of taxi licences in the city.

It comes as taxi drivers have raised concerns about the numbers and safety of rideshare and other private hire cars in the city.

Last month, a petition with over 1,200 valid signatures calling for a cap to be placed on the number of private hire cars in the city was handed in to the council by city cab drivers.

The petition is now set to be considered at Friday’s meeting, where councillors have the power to take action on the petition if they think it is warranted.

It was launched as a result of concerns over the sustainability of the taxi field in the face of rideshare companies like Uber and Bolt, which can charge lower fares than the regulated ones in taxis.

There are around 3,000 private hire cars in the city, many working for rideshare firms like Uber and Bolt.

Keith Auld, a city black cab driver and organiser of the petition, said: “It’s a risk to our livelihoods because there’s too many cars chasing the same jobs. Ultimately, something’s going to have to give.

“I’m all for working in harmony with private hire. But there needs to be a balance – we are now beyond the tipping point, we need the cap to be applied to give us a chance.

“The numbers speak for themselves, they’re almost treble our taxis.”

Taxi drivers also raised concerns about the safety of private hires in the city, with worries that some drivers might be pulling extremely long hours to make ends meet.

Jamie Stalker, secretary of Edinburgh’s Unite taxi drivers’ branch, said last month: “The safety aspect of what’s going on in the city just now – there’s so many private hires out there.

“And because they’re not making a decent living, they’re working anywhere up to 10 to 15, 16, 17 hours every day. That’s dangerous.

“Uber has got a thing on their app where they can log them off after 10 hours of working, but then all they do is just jump on to another app, or go and work for one of the local private hire companies, so there’s no control.

“They’ve been lucky that there hasn’t been a major car accident, or somebody falling asleep at the wheel, that sort of stuff.”

Bolt told the Local Democracy Reporting Service at the time that their service was not meant to supplant black taxis, and that their drivers earned the national minimum wage.

And both Bolt and Uber said their drivers were entitled to holiday pay and a pension.

Edinburgh Council last considered whether a cap on the number of private hire cars in the city was needed in 2022, as part of a survey commissioned in 2019.

In February 2023, the Regulatory Committee agreed, based on the survey results and stakeholder consultation, that no cap on private hire cars was needed.

The city also reports the number of private hire cars to councillors every year, with the last notification coming in January of this year.

Last month, Liberal Democrat councillor Neil Ross, convener of the Regulatory Committee, said: “We regularly review the number of PHCs in the city, most recently in January 2025.

“We have received a petition on this issue, and it will be addressed under the Council’s petition process.

“The Council maintains regular contact with the relevant trade groups and will continue to listen to their broader feedback.”

The petition will be considered at the next meeting of the Regulatory Committee on Friday, August 8, which you can view here.

How times change?

I wonder if part of the reason members of the black cab trade have such an issue with unlimited PH is because they are not jockeying black cabs.

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IDFIMH

Similar kind of situation to Glasgow – PH maxed out and unused HC plates, probably due to respective vehicle/running costs. I know Glasgow allows a bit of leeway with an unused HC plate but I don’t think it’s much.

I’d not expect much public support for a cap – they just want a car to be there (if and when they want one) and they’re not really interested in how it all works. It’ll be existing HC/PH plate holders pushing for it – maybe even some Ubers.

Heard from a trade contact in London – a common scenario down there is new PH drivers sign up with Uber, find it’s not viable without very long hours and switch it to a part-time side hustle. Uber and TfL won’t care so long as more sign up.

Twas ever thus. Whether London, Dundee or St Andrews, in my experience at least. And both HC and PH.

But I'd guess the prevalence of that in a particular location will depend on the difficultly of getting a badge in the first place.

Thus, before TfL actually licensed minicabs in the early 2000s, I'd guess the scenario described by Mr XH558 was even worse...

And on a related point, if London minicabs had never been licensed, or if Uber had landed in the UK more than a decade earlier than they did, then they wouldn't have needed licenses in London at all

Which would, of course, have been consistent with Uber's original aim to run completely unregulated cars and drivers

The road to hell is paved with good intentions I suppose. It doesn't really bode well if PH (or HC for that matter) is becoming a job that's only attractive as some kind of sideline.

It'll be interesting to see how HC numbers in Glasgow and Edinburgh go over the next few years, regardless of any caps.

I agree.

But how many taxi owners would refuse a taxi jockey if said jockey only wanted to work part-time?

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IDFIMH

Edinburgh private hire car survey to be carried out amid concerns over rise of Uber

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/ed ... y-32229446

A survey to determine whether there are too many private hire cars in Edinburgh has been approved by Edinburgh councillors.

It comes after a group of taxi drivers in the capital handed over a petition to city councillors last month, asking for a review to be carried out.

The drivers had also asked for a pause to be placed on issuing new private hire licences while the survey was carried out.

But at Friday’s meeting of the Regulatory Committee, councillors did not back a Green group amendment that would have called for that.

According to council regulatory services head Andrew Mitchell, tendering for a survey would take about 12 weeks, and data collection would take place in the first half of 2026.

In a deputation to the committee, city taxi driver Keith Auld told councillors: “We believe every passenger deserves a professional journey. But we are undergoing unsustainable pressure.

“This is not healthy competition, it is over-saturation. And it is already having real consequences. We need fair, sustainable and regulated competition.”

Mr Auld and other city black cab drivers say that private hire drivers, many of whom carry out work for apps like Uber and Bolt, end up undercutting their trade.

According to them, this comes down to the lower cost to buy and run a hire car, with the vehicles allowed for use as taxis being very expensive and requiring public hire insurance.

In addition, fares for black cabs are set by the council, while Uber, Bolt and other private hire providers have no minimum charge.

They also argued in their petition that due to the low incomes drivers get from those rideshare services, many of them work for dangerously long hours.

Officers said that 2,982 private hire cars were presently operating in the capital, while 1,090 taxis were also running.

Mr Auld said that three new private hire cars were being added in the city every day, and that the number would reach 4,000 “in no time”.

After the survey is returned to councillors next year, they may consider putting a cap on the number of private hire cars allowed in the city.

In the meeting, councillors were supportive of the idea of a survey, but the committee stopped short of supporting the temporary freeze on licence grants.

Green councillor Susan Rae put forward an amendment that would have called for this, but Mr Mitchell said that if the committee voted for it, the law could be broken.

He said: “There is no legal power to issue a moratorium. There would be no basis in law to refuse to consider an application on the basis of overprovision [without evidence].

“In my view, an immediate moratorium is not something that would be competent.”

Liberal Democrat councillor and committee convener Neil Ross endorsed his group’s motion, which called for a survey to be conducted.

He said: “It would be helpful if we had a workshop for committee members to discuss other issues and elements of concern around the current numbers of private hire vehicles.

“I would be grateful if that were factored in. I’m proposing that we proceed with the consultation and overprovision survey.

“I’m also proposing that officers are alert to concerns raised by all members of the trade who have issues around long working hours.

“I think this is a sensible way forward, it follows the guidance that we have been given by the Scottish Government, it is a legally robust way of approaching the question.”

Labour councillor Margaret Graham put forward an amendment for the city’s administration, which asked that any survey look at the number of private hire cars parked in city streets.

Conservative councillor Joanna Mowat said: “I’m probably alone in this committee in having very great nervousness about interfering in the market.

“There is an element with any cap that is introduced with numbers, the danger of creating protected markets.

“I’m uncomfortable with that, from a political point of view, my natural mean is to be uncomfortable with protecting markets.

“I do think the terms of the petition that has been brought here today, about the public safety element, is something that means we should probably consider this.

“I don’t for one minute think this is going to produce the information that everyone else seems to think this is going to produce.

“But we’re not going to know that unless we carry out an overprovision survey.”

The Labour group added the Green amendment to their addendum, and the Liberal Democrat group added a portion of the administration addendum to their amendment.

Both positions were tied, and as convener, Cllr Ross made a tiebreaking vote that saw the Liberal Democrat position win out.

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IDFIMH

Just clicked that the woman in the petition photo a few weeks ago is said Green councillor

She's been banging the drum for a PH cap for a few years now

This is the petition photo...note the green specs



And this is deffo Susan Rae, so pretty sure that's her in the photo above.



And, like the Glasgow stuff, it all seems a tad too, er, prejudicial in terms of licensing stuff to single out particular providers like Uber and Bolt here

Not that I'm they're greatest fan, obviously, but I'm not a fan of their domestic equivalents either, so it's all a tad tall-poppyish

(Actually, I don't think her specs in the petition photo are green, so I must have been assuming something and then reading it into what I was looking at...or something like that )

In fact in this other version of the same photo the specs are deffo green, so I was right after all

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/ ... uality=100