Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Tue May 05, 2026 1:41 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 14152
Location: Wirral
Addison Lee founders get £300m fare as they sell cab firm
RAC owners buy it and plan expansion outside London to M25 and other cities

The US private-equity giant Carlyle is planning to expand the cabbie company Addison Lee into cities beyond central London after buying the firm in a deal worth close to £300m yesterday. Founded with one car in Battersea in 1975, father-and-son team John and Liam Griffin sold the business yesterday to the Carlyle Group, which also owns the RAC and the health-food chain Holland & Barrett. The Griffins and the family of Lenny Foster, who started the minicab empire with them, will share those spoils while retaining a small stake in the business. It has been quite a rise to fortune for John Griffin as, in the Seventies, he was forced to ditch his apprenticeship as an accountant and turn to mini-cabbing in order to make ends meet and rescue his father’s business. Today, Addison Lee uses a cutting-edge IT system to manage bookings for its 4,500 cars after emerging as the major competitor to London’s black cabs. Under the terms of the deal, the elder Mr Griffin, John, will remain as chairman and his son as chief executive. Drivers who work for the company do not own shares and so will not get a windfall from the deal. Liam Griffin said: “We’re very much concentrated in central London, but now we can look at going further afield within the M25, like the suburbs. We’ll look primarily at that area first.” Carlyle Europe Partners’ managing director, Andrew Burgess, said he was keen to roll out Addison Lee to other cities in the UK which could benefit from the firm’s use of apps and technology that creates such an “efficient dispatch” system. Internationally, Addison Lee already has burgeoning joint ventures in Paris and New York and the younger Mr Griffin said that Carlyle’s international experience – it has 33 offices around the world – would help Addison Lee make major breakthroughs overseas. The cabbie is also looking to widen the range of accounts with blue-chip corporates, which should mean it will end up hiring more than the 4,000 cab drivers that Addison Lee employs today. John Griffin courted controversy last year when he spoke out against London cyclists. He claimed they were to blame for their own injuries on the capital’s busy roads, arguing that they “leap on to a vehicle which offers them no protection except a padded plastic hat”. He added that people were safer taking taxis as they would be “sitting inside a protected space with impact bars and air bags and paying extortionate amounts of taxes on our vehicle purchase, parking, servicing, insurance and road tax”. He also argued for compulsory training and insurance for London’s cyclists, who were sufficiently angered to accuse him of “victim blaming”. The capital for the deal will come from Carlyle Europe Partners III, a €5.4bn (£4.6bn) fund that makes investments in mid-cap and larger companies. Carlyle has $170bn (£111bn) of assets under management across its many funds. It was advised on the transaction by Deloitte, OC&C and Latham & Watkins. Addison Lee was advised by Catalyst Corporate Finance.

Source: The Independent

_________________
Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
minicab firm :roll:

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
I think some of us actually warned about this with the law commission - it'll be an awful lot easier if there are simple rules in each area - and the app's are made legal.........of course the apps are still possibly illegal - but nobody seems to bother about that :roll:

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 12045
Location: Aberdeen
I'm sure Carlyle are getting exactly what AL paid for. Griffins tory party donations look like chump change compared to this :wink:

BTW, We all be f*ck*d.

_________________
Image
http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:02 pm
Posts: 605
rats leaving the ship griffin can obviously see the future and know ph office is endanger speacis an once app get going ph office die


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:06 pm
Posts: 24391
Location: Twixt Heaven and Hell, but nearest Hell
Tico wrote:
rats leaving the ship griffin can obviously see the future and know ph office is endanger speacis an once app get going ph office die


in your dreams....

its old fashioned rank hacks that are doomed

_________________
Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 14152
Location: Wirral
Tico wrote:
rats leaving the ship griffin can obviously see the future and know ph office is endanger speacis an once app get going ph office die


Do you think the Carlyle Group would be paying £300m for a sinking ship, I don't :wink: There is one thing for sure AL will be expending, it'll be part of the deal, which in imho will also be paid in instalments subject to targets. Call me cynical but it's strange how the deal has come just after the LC has announced it's intentions to open the borders up for ph :wink:

_________________
Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:47 pm
Posts: 20863
Location: Stamford Britains prettiest town till SKDC ruined it
Griffin and his son are being retained to run the business so he will will get his nice big salary and a bonus that will make bankers jealous

From Griffins point of view this is a win win he keeps his job and gets to cash in his equity so if the business struggles he isn't the one taking the financial risks. It does mean though that the business has access to vast sums of finance which would enable them to set up in lots of major cities around the world and the UK

_________________
lack of modern legislation is the iceberg sinking the titanic of the transport sector


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57359
Location: 1066 Country
Tico wrote:
rats leaving the ship griffin can obviously see the future and know ph office is endanger speacis an once app get going ph office die

Far from it.

The future is very large national PH fleets, and they will take over most of the pukka work currently being done by the taxi trade.

The future is not a good place for the existing taxi/PH trade to be.

All thanks to the numpties from the Unite Union.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 4:28 pm
Posts: 8998
Location: London
Maybe out in county mountie land, but in London they're still losing lots of work to Hailo.

We're quicker, cheaper, more comfortable and needless to say, ever so slightly more knowledgable.

That, accompanied by the never ending recruitment of Slav....., sorry, drivers means that being an AL mini cab driver isn't a happy lot at the mo.

Shame. :wink:

Have a gander at their drivers association forum for the real truth about working at a London Minicab outfit.

Griffin must be pizz.ing himself with laughter at his fortune, whilst his drivers make a few hundred a week for working every hour god sends.

Wait until they arrive in your area. . . .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:02 pm
Posts: 605
Sussex wrote:
Tico wrote:
rats leaving the ship griffin can obviously see the future and know ph office is endanger speacis an once app get going ph office die

Far from it.

The future is very large national PH fleets, and they will take over most of the pukka work currently being done by the taxi trade.

The future is not a good place for the existing taxi/PH trade to be.

All thanks to the numpties from the Unite Union.


i didnt mean ph was doomed i mean the offices are if the app take off and the law allow ph driver to operate as a single unit linked to app center but i see where you are coming from with big boy eat small boy thing and it probably will happen before app gets to be the thing


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57359
Location: 1066 Country
GBC wrote:
Maybe out in county mountie land, but in London they're still losing lots of work to Hailo.

What happens when it gets busy again?

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
A wise man once wrote;

Murder on Tothill Street
________________________________________
By The Reiver

On May 10, fourteen months after the investigation began, the Law Commission presented the nation with their ‘provisional’ views on the taxi and private hire trades – in reality, it was a capitulation to the traditional aggressors: the minicab empires.

It should be remembered that there are three main issues, the rest are superfluous due in many parts to them being interconnected. The first, underlines the surrender, the allowing of private hire vehicles to work across district borders.

The L.C. call for cross border hiring’s to be legalised, appears to be innocent enough, mildly describing a situation where a PH Operators vehicle breaks down with passenger in another area.

Current law specifically prohibits the operator from contacting another operator (in a different area), they presumably envisage the passing on of bookings as a measure to protect the public.

After a few more pages, that credulousness is cast aside as the prejudice comes to the fore – operators would be permitted to use vehicles and drivers licensed anywhere, a complete deviation from the rationale.

At the outset of the consultation, the L.C. suggested they would be working on a blank canvas approach to taxi and private-hire law. Yet within months, the L.C. not only decided to retain a two-tier licensing system, it decided to permit cross border hiring, thus following a consistent line of legalising previously illegal activities.

The L.C. place great emphasis on national standards, although this emphasis does not extend to advising what standards they have in mind, but there is emphasis nevertheless. The L.C. allude to DSA driving tests, group 2 medicals and enhanced CRB checks, in respect of drivers, stuff that most of us have anyway, yet like true snake oil salesmen, great play is made of the magic elixir of standards.

Rather foolishly even some in the Hackney carriage trade are seemingly supporting these standards, although they appear to have little concept of what they may actually entail. Again, the duplicitous nature of the cab trade comes becomes apparent – attempting to set standards on a trade they regularly show nothing but utter contempt towards.

Public safety is of obvious concern, hence the national standards, it is instructive to note the L.C. chose to mention the case of John Worboys – ‘The black cab rapist’ – the unpalatable fact the L.C. appear to miss is that Worboys would have been granted a license under any licensing regime in the country – they similarly neglect to advise of systematic failings within the metropolitan police, this would ordinarily seem too bizarre to neglect to mention – although the L.C. choice to cite Worboys as a ‘black cab’ driver is quite revealing, showing partiality. A balanced document would have perhaps mentioned the plethora of both licensed and unlicensed minicab drivers who have been convicted of horrific offences over the years.

Obviously, the worry of the taxi trade is the national standards for private hire maybe piecemeal, to this end the concern is perhaps justifiable – however it does smack of duplicity – whilst the taxi trade want national private hire standards, they want no such national governance of their own industry. Such inconsistency will no doubt be highlighted when the consultation closes.

The only person permitted to change the envisaged national regulations will be the Secretary of State – as the regulations are national they will naturally cover the entire country – be this central London or the Lake District – it is astounding to comprehend the L.C. would seemingly believe the profit margins of the likes of Addison Lee are comparable to Bert’s taxis of Mungrisdale – which of course would suggest the new standards will need to be of a quality to encompass both John and Bert.

The rationale behind the national standard is that if the Lake District has the same standards as London, with licenses at the same cost – then a person wouldn’t need to travel to avoid localised licensing regimes.

No one can know how much influence of private hire operators are imparted into the consultation, and backed by the DfT and government, we are likely to never know, but the apparent slant is there for all to read.

To back up their fixation with cross border, the L.C. informs of envisaged new powers for local licensing officers over vehicles from other districts. This is all part of the overt plan, a person can still obtain a license elsewhere, the national standards will be the exact same nationwide anyway, they surmise it must surely follow that licensing departments will need the power to check the vehicles and drivers from these areas, thus firmly backing up the cross border scenario.

The L.C. appears to view the expansion of large PH into other areas as a good thing, one where mere fundamentals such as localised regulation shouldn’t prohibit expansion. They selectively appear to forget Dr Darryl Biggar’s thoughts on how taxi monopolies emerge, although, in a manner we have become accustomed, they quote the poor chap to death when his words suit their purpose. It naturally doesn’t appear to concern them locals have developed both taxi and private hire policies and standards over an extended period of time.

The L.C. alludes to private-hire driver pseudo employment, but don’t seemingly have the courage to even suggest this matter should be reviewed by the HMRC. Of course, they’re view would (and still may be) very useful, as theories go empires are generally built through the blood, sweat and tears of others, minicab drivers, those low paid, family tax credit claiming serfs, never get the acclaim they truly deserve. Notably, the L.C. seemingly fails to recognise why the turnover of drivers in the minicab industry is alarmingly high – with the profits of minicab companies even higher.

Of course the L.C. is truly balanced in their views, as much as they seemingly love minicab proprietors, they detest taxis with equal measure. Local authority regulatory control of taxi numbers was a key target from the outset. I am sure most of you, like myself wonder why a body whose job it is to review the law would feel the need to be involved in economic theory.

The L.C. plans for the taxi trade revolve around taxi delimitation, there is little of consequence about the effects, although they seemingly are aware to impose deregulation overnight would create ‘market distortion’ – in layman’s terms they mean anarchy.

They don’t feel able to comment on taxi rank provision – no doubt they gave it a great deal of thought – the same type of thought most of us give the first coffee of the day, one would suspect – one that involves multi agencies such as coffee, milk, water and sugar, plus the limitation of space due to the size of the cup. Due to things like that – ranks were, as you might expect - ignored.

That too makes good sense. As the L.C. are still going to permit cross border hackney carriages – if you can recall a few paragraphs above, they naturally need licensing departments to regulate vehicles they do not license.

The maximum national standards for private hire will be minimum standards for taxis – to this end there will be still localised regulation – just not regulation permitting local authorities to limit taxi numbers. Intimating the envisaged more austere licensing regime for taxis than private hire, although doubtless we will be given some feigned response implying the opposite.

Whilst the L.C. appear to trust local authorities to enforce their new laws, this trust does not extend, as mentioned above, to one where they are able to control taxi numbers. One could be mistaken for believing with such a grandiose title as ‘Law Commission’ they would realise that under certain conditions the law can be just plain stupid. Even the L.C. should recognise that places such as Liverpool, Cardiff and Sheffield were re-regulated due to police advising local authorities that they were spending too much of their time moving on taxis from fouled cab ranks – than doing what they’re paid for – which is presumably catching proper criminals. Unless the law has some type of escape mechanism to allow for local authority action – it is patently ridiculous.

Another illustration of the ambiguities of the L.C. is the lack of clarity in respect of licensing fees. It was acknowledged by Mr. Christopher Symonds QC in Newcastle CC v Berwick DC [HC QBD] 2008.

“One of the reasons why Berwick have received numerous applications for licences from outside their area is undoubtedly the fact that the cost of the licence in Berwick- upon-Tweed is less than in many other areas including Newcastle upon Tyne.”

The L.C. moots the idea of a national licensing fee, nothing substantive, just a punt into the main field of the consultation. The national fee would presumably be set by the Secretary of State for Transport.

The other mooted idea (these people can moot with the best of us) is to vary the costs of enforcement locally. The thought occurs that this is nothing more than fudge; it would still lead to ‘honey-pot’ areas charging greater fees as the cost of enforcement still has a bearing. The alternative would be for some type of licensing poll tax, where all areas pay for the enforcement of the ‘honey pots’, this would be highly controversial, in effect a licensee from the Lake district would be burdened with the cost of enforcement in London. The simple fact the L.C. haven’t seemingly thought about how enforcement will be funded is in itself quite astonishing.

For reasons explained in chapter 12 of the consultation the L.C. remains convinced changes need made due to technology. They appear to miss the point that how a booking is made is of little consequence, be this by carrier pigeon, telephone, iphone ‘apps’ or twitter feeds, it is clearly more important that the person receiving the booking is licensed. To all intents and purposes, this is already the case, the person receiving the booking is already licensed, thus the technology part of the document is nothing more than the proverbial ‘red herring’ and duplicitous in the extreme.

Due to column inches I must now finish this article, but there’ll be more, I can guarantee it.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
It would appear some thoughts were incorrect - and some were quite accurate

The Law Commission is coming to kill you


I bet Casey is smiling like a Cheshire cat right now, he’s probably smiling and uttering the words ‘I fecking told you so’, in actual fact I would place a wager those words will be on his headstone when he eventually passes on from this mortal coil.

In all too many respects his words have gone unheeded. The taxi trade, whether it likes it or not, needs to consider itself almost entirely responsible for the current mess. Example number one is the taxi trade in our Capital. The representative bodies there appear to spend more time squabbling with each other, petty squabbles about who should be excluded from meetings and who sits where, than concentrating on taking the fight to the minicab empires that have arisen without too much passing notice. In the months preceding the Law Commission consultation, the trade press in London were practically silent, they were probably duped into believing a fabled letter from Boris would make ha'porth of difference.

The provincial cab trade do not have a united voice, similar to their London brethren each association has its own view and own policies and invariably, does its own thing, however I would suggest they are the good guys, they are the ones at least trying. The point of the cab trades venom should be the areas where there’s little or no interest in being part of larger more national looking bodies. It’s not that there isn’t local organisations there, I know for a fact they are, indeed contact the national bodies for free advice when they’re in the sh*t, but like lots of folk in this industry, they don’t want to pay – or at least give out many reasons why they cannot.

The above being stated, can there be any real surprise at the Law Commission basically kowtowing to Private Hire Operators? I don’t really think so. As much as it pains me to say, I would suggest the law commission view of private hire operators (however wrong) is one of professional looking companies, the large firms in London, Liverpool and the North East have seen to that.

Whether (we) the cab trade like it or not, the law commission must look at us as a ragtag and bobtail type of outfit, I wrote as much after the taxi trade meeting with them back in November last year. I would suspect the impression the law commission got of the taxi trade is one more akin to ‘Carry on Cabby’ rather than ‘The Matrix’. This view is obviously false, the cab trade have always been at the forefront of technological innovation, the latest iphone applications will scare the pants off any private hire operator – yet these alone don’t justify such wholesale change as what’s being suggested.

Of course, if you don’t believe me, in respect of private-hire operator bias, take a peek at their daft consultation and the lack of taxi related suggestions included in their documents. I understand they were supplied with photographs of fouled taxi ranks from many deregulated areas, none of which were reproduced or even given considered in their document. I would also suspect those national bodies and unions interested in BTEC & NVQ training assessments would have been spending time telling the commission all about the benefits of driver training courses, yet the document merely refers to disability training, not the whole caboodle designed to keep NVQ assessors in a job.

Obviously, the Law Commission suggesting – or to be more accurate the lack of suggesting – that private-hire drivers need a country wide NVQ assessment has a degree of irony – especially for all those poor shmucks who actually took the courses - thus wasting valuable hours of their life being told how to do a job they’ve probably done for many years. It obviously disproves Casey’s theory that the Law Commission were a humourless – sour faced - old bunch, as they do seem to have a sense of hilarity.

Naturally, the above mentioned types of training couldn’t be acceptable if it would threaten the turnover of drivers in the private hire industry – moreover such course, as a matter of principle run contrary to the underlying ethos of a free market – in a free market the better companies will shine – they don’t need the helping hand of a BTEC or NVQ. More to the point such courses would be run at tax-payers expense to benefit private companies – that cannot be correct.

Indeed, it could suggest a degree of leaning towards private-hire e operators in the consultation, if you read through the provisional reform papers. The only likely beneficiaries of cross border activities being legitimised are private-hire operators, so this obviously gets the thumbs up from the Law Commission, but if someone points out taxi deregulation is a really bad thing, the answer appears to be, those b*stards deserve to starve.

Naivety is a word; it’s a word I’d use to describe those that are citing new National Standards for both private hire drivers and vehicles. These national standards are regularly quoted by the law commission in their documents; great play is made of them. However, if you consider funeral and wedding cars are to be included in the new regime, as well as a liberal sprinkling of pedicabs and a dollop of novelty vehicles, it’s easy to deduce the standards ain’t going to be too high.

It would seem quite absurd that some within the taxi trade still cling to the belief that they will be able to manipulate the law commission into ensuring there are high national standards. They thought they could manipulate them a year ago and failed, what makes them think they can manipulate them now? Anyone holding on to the hope that national standards will be the saviour of the taxi trade is seriously deluded.

Naturally removing private hire regulation from the claws of licensing departments is a weird move. In effect the law commission are saying locals are not best placed to decide to locally regulate the private hire industry. This stance not only gives localism a rather large boot up the backside, but also fails to recognise how localised services invariably are, it is after all only about half a dozen large PH companies complaining about licensing laws – and these are usually because the proprietors have some type of mental affliction.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:38 pm 
Hopefully the Law Commission here will read and re read these before they bolt the stable door!


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 683 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group