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 Post subject: Crash cabbie loses badge
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:24 pm 
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Cabbie who caused crash which left girl with brain trauma loses taxi licence


A TAXI driver who caused a five-car pile-up which left a four-year-old girl fighting for her life has had his licence revoked.

Amir Azad ploughed into the back of Lisa Orrock and Chris Bootes’ family car while they were stopped at traffic lights on the A194, near the Lindisfarne roundabout in Jarrow – leaving the couple’s four-year-old daughter, Jessica, suffering serious head injuries and years of medical treatment and rehabilitation.

Azad pleaded guilty to careless driving at South Tyneside Magistrates’ Court and was fined £250 and allowed to hold onto his licence after being given six penalty points.

But last night, South Tyneside Council announced it had revoked his licence to drive a taxi.

A council spokesman said: “We have decided to revoke Mr Azad’s taxi licence. Mr Azad has 21 days to appeal the decision.”

Jessica was injured despite being strapped into a booster seat in the rear of the car.

She was taken to Newcastle’s Royal Victoria Infirmary and spent 11 days in an induced coma and is still receiving regular treatment for her injuries.

Azad, 35, of Lilac Avenue, South Shields, was working for South Tyneside firm Dial-A-Cab at the time of the accident.

The company, which is based in Laygate, South Shields, sacked him immediately after the accident.

It is understood he had been taken on by another taxi company since.

South Tyneside Council announced it would be reviewing his licence following the court verdict.

Miss Orrock has described the council’s decision as “fantastic news” but says she will reserve judgement until the 21-day appeal process is over.

She said: “I believe it is the right thing to do and I appreciate the council coming to this decision.

“If it is confirmed and ends up in black and white, I will be elated.”

Miss Orrock says she remains disappointed at the court decision and says it is due to ‘massive flaws’ in the legal system.

The family believed Azad should have faced a charge of reckless driving – which carries higher penalties than a charge of careless driving.

Miss Orrock says there should be a charge between those already on the statute book.

She added: “There should be a charge of careless driving causing serious injury.

“We should be concentrating all our time on Jessica but we have to fight for this. I won’t stop fighting until changes to the law are brought in.

“We drove past that stretch of road yesterday and two cars cut in front of us. It is horrible driving past there. It is gut wrenching.”

“Tougher laws would mean people would, hopefully, take more care over their driving and think of the consequences of an accident.”

“What kind of message does that sentence send out?”

Azad wished to make no comment.

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/crim ... -1-6699760

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:36 pm 
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She added: “There should be a charge of careless driving causing serious injury.


That wouldn't work, It's either Careless, Wreckless or Dangerous..The Charge reflects the amount of Driver neglect which causes an accident and not on the amount of injury that arises from it.

It's up to the Police to say which level of driver incompetence the charge relates to.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:11 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
It is understood he had been taken on by another taxi company since.

Shock horror. :sad:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:02 am 
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How many hours had he worked then??


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:17 am 
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Tougher laws don't stop anything. Hanging didn't prevent people being murdered.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:44 am 
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Listen, if they are not prepared to monitor driver hours, then what do they expect. There is a limit to how many hours you can work before putting yourself and others at risk, so it's no surprise, when something goes wrong. :-|

Oh and despite there being no mention of his hours worked. I bet this accident happened at the end of a very long week. :shock:

I think Mr. Azad, is being made a scapegoat to cover for the real issue of low pay and long hours. :-|

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:08 pm 
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Listen, if they are not prepared to monitor driver hours, then what do they expect. There is a limit to how many hours you can work before putting yourself and others at risk, so it's no surprise, when something goes wrong.


It is interesting how many times it comes up that people talk about limiting hours worked.......for Taxi/P.H drivers only.

My thought is this - To limit a Taxi/P.H driver for working say a 12 hour shift, then it would have to apply to everyone else who also works a 12 hour shift i.e Hotel/pub staff, hospitals, police, in fact anyone, as tired is tired, they also have to get behind the wheel of a car at the end of many hours beyond a 12 hour shift, to get home - so how is it any different to our trade?

We all know that drivers can be out there for say 12 hours, but may in many cases drive less than 150/200 miles in that time, putting the average per hour @ 12.5//16.66 miles actually driven, not exactly pushing the limits in my book. The trap that many seem to fall into is thinking.......Hmmm driver out 12 hours, then he she must be driving the horrendous mileage that a Coach/Lorry driver will do, which is not the case.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:32 pm 
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cabby john wrote:
Quote:
Listen, if they are not prepared to monitor driver hours, then what do they expect. There is a limit to how many hours you can work before putting yourself and others at risk, so it's no surprise, when something goes wrong.


It is interesting how many times it comes up that people talk about limiting hours worked.......for Taxi/P.H drivers only.

My thought is this - To limit a Taxi/P.H driver for working say a 12 hour shift, then it would have to apply to everyone else who also works a 12 hour shift i.e Hotel/pub staff, hospitals, police, in fact anyone, as tired is tired, they also have to get behind the wheel of a car at the end of many hours beyond a 12 hour shift, to get home - so how is it any different to our trade?

We all know that drivers can be out there for say 12 hours, but may in many cases drive less than 150/200 miles in that time, putting the average per hour @ 12.5//16.66 miles actually driven, not exactly pushing the limits in my book. The trap that many seem to fall into is thinking.......Hmmm driver out 12 hours, then he she must be driving the horrendous mileage that a Coach/Lorry driver will do, which is not the case.


Have a wee look at the link below and then tell me that prolonged hours spent behind the wheel of a taxi, whether driving or not, doesn't cause driver fatigue. I know from personal experience that long hours, shift work, with little quality time off, wears you down. It's an accumulative effect. :-|

I have absolutely no doubt, that Ph/taxi drivers in probably the majority of cases are spending far too much time in the saddle to be safe. However, there is also the argument that experience makes you more proficient and safer than your average driver, but there comes a tipping point where the opposite is true. :-|

http://www.optalert.com/news/driver-fat ... nd-effects

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:10 pm 
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Skull wrote:
cabby john wrote:
Quote:
Listen, if they are not prepared to monitor driver hours, then what do they expect. There is a limit to how many hours you can work before putting yourself and others at risk, so it's no surprise, when something goes wrong.


It is interesting how many times it comes up that people talk about limiting hours worked.......for Taxi/P.H drivers only.

My thought is this - To limit a Taxi/P.H driver for working say a 12 hour shift, then it would have to apply to everyone else who also works a 12 hour shift i.e Hotel/pub staff, hospitals, police, in fact anyone, as tired is tired, they also have to get behind the wheel of a car at the end of many hours beyond a 12 hour shift, to get home - so how is it any different to our trade?

We all know that drivers can be out there for say 12 hours, but may in many cases drive less than 150/200 miles in that time, putting the average per hour @ 12.5//16.66 miles actually driven, not exactly pushing the limits in my book. The trap that many seem to fall into is thinking.......Hmmm driver out 12 hours, then he she must be driving the horrendous mileage that a Coach/Lorry driver will do, which is not the case.


Have a wee look at the link below and then tell me that prolonged hours spent behind the wheel of a taxi, whether driving or not, doesn't cause driver fatigue. I know from personal experience that long hours, shift work, with little quality time off, wears you down. It's an accumulative effect. :-|

I have absolutely no doubt, that Ph/taxi drivers in probably the majority of cases are spending far too much time in the saddle to be safe. However, there is also the argument that experience makes you more proficient and safer than your average driver, but there comes a tipping point where the opposite is true. :-|

http://www.optalert.com/news/driver-fat ... nd-effects



Looking at the article; the emphasis seems to be "drivers"only ! and then.........
Quote:
shift workers and those working extended hours: Shift workers are 6 times more likely to be in a fatigue-related crash, whether that be at work (operating machinery or vehicles) or commuting


I know that you are right re drivers, like yourself I have been there. Having said that fatigue/tiredness applies to all , so how can you discriminate against drivers who may have had an easy shift against a worker say you/I coming out of a factory after a grueling physically hard shift, totally knackered........how does that really differ in terms of levels of tiredness? I am not in effect arguing against you........but I would argue baring in mind the mileage that a T/PH driver does in terms of being excessive, is not what many think, in fact a Rep of a company may very well drive many miles more over the course of a year.

My point being is that it should not just apply to the taxi trade (we get slated enough as it is), real thought should be put into it across the board. The truth is the "Think tanks" have probably already looked at it, and the arguments that will go with it...................with money winning at the end of the day - and casualties being....Well! um casualties #-o

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:50 pm 
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As a PH my 12 hour working day would not be the same as a 12 hour Driving shift, I might do my first run at 5.30am and nothing else until 3pm and my last run at 11pm, that might appear to some to be a 17.5 hour working day yet in reality I may only have Driven 150 Miles over 4 Hours or less.

If I had a limit of 12 Hours imposed on me then I could only have fit in two of those runs, possibly missing out on the money earner at night.

As i work from home as a PH I would be sitting at home doing precisely the same things between runs whether I'm sitting waiting for work or having a day off completely, so a 12 hour Limit makes not one Iota of difference to how much i'm rested.

If they Defined 12 Hour Shifts as Driving hours only then that's one thing, but if your sitting at home reading a copy of the Worlds best Newspaper "The Daily Mail" or even having a nap as part of your shift then your never going to make a living due to nature of Rural PH'ing.

Might be Different of course for City PH guys working their little arse's to the bone and driving god only knows how many hours a day, but It would be ludicrous to tarnish all PH with the one Brush. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:35 pm 
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bloodnock wrote:
As a PH my 12 hour working day would not be the same as a 12 hour Driving shift, I might do my first run at 5.30am and nothing else until 3pm and my last run at 11pm, that might appear to some to be a 17.5 hour working day yet in reality I may only have Driven 150 Miles over 4 Hours or less.

If I had a limit of 12 Hours imposed on me then I could only have fit in two of those runs, possibly missing out on the money earner at night.

As i work from home as a PH I would be sitting at home doing precisely the same things between runs whether I'm sitting waiting for work or having a day off completely, so a 12 hour Limit makes not one Iota of difference to how much i'm rested.

If they Defined 12 Hour Shifts as Driving hours only then that's one thing, but if your sitting at home reading a copy of the Worlds best Newspaper "The Daily Mail" or even having a nap as part of your shift then your never going to make a living due to nature of Rural PH'ing.

Might be Different of course for City PH guys working their little arse's to the bone and driving god only knows how many hours a day, but It would be ludicrous to tarnish all PH with the one Brush. :roll:


I don't think anyone is trying to tarnish all Ph with the same brush nor are they claiming there aren't exceptions to every rule. :?

Nevertheless, what you can say, is that long hours and low pay, is the general working rule of driving in the Taxi/PH industry. :-|

:-|

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:40 pm 
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Cabby John writes:

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My point being is that it should not just apply to the taxi trade (we get slated enough as it is), real thought should be put into it across the board.


I think the taxi trade has got of lightly as far as working hours are concerned and is long overdue for an overhaul, when it comes to pay and conditions. :-|

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:24 pm 
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So in effect if all taxi/ph drivers were employed rather than self-employed, they would then come under the Working Time Directive. the problem is that would tend to exclude those of us who are one-man operators, self-employed and exempt!

Personally I'm in favour of limiting the working time to a sensible level; there's drivers in this rural area who work round the clock, 0300 night club return, 0800 school run, shopping trips in the day, pm school run, early evening to the pub runs, last evening night club run outward... tell me they're safe and alert all the time?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:46 pm 
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roythebus wrote:
So in effect if all taxi/ph drivers were employed rather than self-employed, they would then come under the Working Time Directive. the problem is that would tend to exclude those of us who are one-man operators, self-employed and exempt!

Personally I'm in favour of limiting the working time to a sensible level; there's drivers in this rural area who work round the clock, 0300 night club return, 0800 school run, shopping trips in the day, pm school run, early evening to the pub runs, last evening night club run outward... tell me they're safe and alert all the time?


It's fuc*ing madness that these kinds of hours are being worked without question and the answer to anything going wrong, is to blame the driver and not his pay and conditions. :-|

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:53 pm 
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The guys round here are all self-employed; there's no barons or radio circuits in this rural area, so they are masters of their own destiny. They all seem to chase the most fares for the lowest prices just to pay the bills.

We tend to go for fewer fares at better prices at sensible hours and don't work excessive hours.


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