Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Fri May 01, 2026 7:42 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57355
Location: 1066 Country
And these are the new conditions Uber have to now adhere too.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl ... ions-1.pdf

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:05 am
Posts: 145
The LTDA are not exactly a neutral party in this. They'll bring up public safety but ultimately it's all about wanting the competition to go away.

The big issue is the lack of joined up systems. It's difficult to verify that someone actually has H&R insurance rather than just SDP, most operators just take a copy of the insurance certificate or cover note, how many of them actually phone the insurance company to verify that the certificate is legit? On a similar vein with the photo swapping on the app, they traced that to 24 out of 40,000 drivers, that's the equivalent of an op with 1600 cars having 1 dodgy driver let his mate drive it. I daresay that any one of us could do the exact same thing with any of the big ops that use Autocab or similar, the only difference is that without the photo swapping there's no evidence that it actually happened.

Would you expect even a 100 car operator to be denied an op licence if it was found that one of its drivers had commited fraud against them?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 18533
Karga wrote:
The big issue is the lack of joined up systems. It's difficult to verify that someone actually has H&R insurance rather than just SDP, most operators just take a copy of the insurance certificate or cover note, how many of them actually phone the insurance company to verify that the certificate is legit? On a similar vein with the photo swapping on the app, they traced that to 24 out of 40,000 drivers, that's the equivalent of an op with 1600 cars having 1 dodgy driver let his mate drive it. I daresay that any one of us could do the exact same thing with any of the big ops that use Autocab or similar, the only difference is that without the photo swapping there's no evidence that it actually happened.

Would you expect even a 100 car operator to be denied an op licence if it was found that one of its drivers had commited fraud against them?

Indeed, and consistent with what the chief magistrate said about perfection not being required, and his remarks about the industry more widely.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57355
Location: 1066 Country
Quote:
Would you expect even a 100 car operator to be denied an op licence if it was found that one of its drivers had commited fraud against them?

No.

But the accusation was that they knew about it and didn't react in sufficient time.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 18533
Uber's counsel, Gerald Gouriet QC wrote:
Déjà vu

This appeal marks the second occasion, in a little over two years, in which Uber has been able to persuade a court that between TfL’s refusal to renew its licence and the appeal hearing it has put right the many wrongs that led to TfL’s decision. The judge in the 2018 appeal said: “The question for this court is whether ULL can be trusted when it says it has changed and whether it will maintain the changes when these proceedings drop away”. Leading counsel for TfL in the latest appeal said much the same thing: she said that the “crucial question” was whether Uber could be trusted to break its cycle of “remorse and reform”.

Mending what has been broken, and undertaking not to do the same again, has proved a winning formula for Uber. There cannot be many licensees whose repeated breaches of conditions and regulations are of so little consequence.

Which is kind of consistent with what I was saying almost three years ago to the day [-(

In October 2017, Stuart wrote:
Thus to a degree it's maybe irresistible force meets immoveable object, and it's a case of who blinks first. But I wouldn't be surprised if TfL expected all along that Uber would continue, and they're just sabre rattling because Uber won't play ball on compliance, so effectively TfL's position is simply to force Uber's hand.

It's always looked like TfL don't actually expect Uber to lose its licence, and the litigation etc is all about forcing Uber's hand on compliance and updating processes and procedures as required etc.

So call it cat and mouse, brinksmanship, or whatever, but it's all a kind of game. Of course, a lot of law, litigation, prosecutions etc is like that, whether civil or criminal. It's just the reality of these things.

Incidentally, and on a pedantic presentational point, I'd have removed the QC's underlining of paragraph headings:

Gerald Gouriet QC wrote:
The Decision

LTDA submissions

Déjà vu

Maybe it's a thing in legal documents, but if you look in newspapers, books, official reports, professional websites etc, you won't see much underlining used for titles, paragraph headings etc. Use a bigger font, bold or even italics, but not underlining

Utterly disgraceful [-X

And if there's one thing that should be relevant to fit and proper status, it's underlining text like that :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
Karga wrote:
The LTDA are not exactly a neutral party in this. They'll bring up public safety but ultimately it's all about wanting the competition to go away.

The big issue is the lack of joined up systems. It's difficult to verify that someone actually has H&R insurance rather than just SDP, most operators just take a copy of the insurance certificate or cover note, how many of them actually phone the insurance company to verify that the certificate is legit? On a similar vein with the photo swapping on the app, they traced that to 24 out of 40,000 drivers, that's the equivalent of an op with 1600 cars having 1 dodgy driver let his mate drive it. I daresay that any one of us could do the exact same thing with any of the big ops that use Autocab or similar, the only difference is that without the photo swapping there's no evidence that it actually happened.

Would you expect even a 100 car operator to be denied an op licence if it was found that one of its drivers had commited fraud against them?

Our insurance certificates state that we are covered for private hire.

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:05 am
Posts: 145
grandad wrote:
Our insurance certificates state that we are covered for private hire.


I know, but did you actually call the insurance company named on the certificate to confirm that it actually genuine? This has been what a number of Uber drivers were doing, buying (convincing) fake documents.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 564 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group