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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:54 pm 
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Location: MIDLANDS
limo man wrote:
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S6 Conversion specialist.It would be if i operated limousines



You sold all yours as you knew the s~it was going to hit the fan 2009.

The Midlands must really proud to have a specialist like you to work on there limousines. With people like you make the limousine industry look like a complete bunch of cowboys. The taxi drivers/P/H limousine operators can see right though you when well you learn to say nothing.

Less said is more gained

By the way are you the limousine repair shop in the Midlands that was making coke can exhausts, as there cant that many S-6 specialist in the Midlands. The man who sold an Converted S-6 Limousine within a week or two got a GB9. On 9 or 10 points but you will put us right on this, as you are so honest. With all your business practices & scams or cons want ever you would like to call them?


Limo Man



Not me mate , strange how all these little worms crawl out the woodwork spreading lies yet remain anonymous.

Ive got a very good idea who you are Limo man so why dont you tell us?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:13 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Just a guess but I would assume that the driver would always drive within the speed limits applicable to the vehicle and road. I would guess that the driver would go where the person who hired the vehicle asked him to go subject to the vehicle being able to access the particular area. For example he would not be able to go into a multi storey car park or McDonalds drivethrough.

I suspect that the reason for asking this particular question has more to do with establishing who is actually employing the driver.


Thank you for your guessed response but I need to know exactly what is in these contracts, including the relationship between all three parties of driver, vehicle owner and the agency who supplied the driver.

Considering the information and contract details surrounding this unlawful method of hire or reward is guarded with the utmost secrecy I doubt if we will ever see the light of day of any of these contracts?

However, considering your outburst regarding employment was factually incorrect perhaps you might wish to consider apologising to the person to whom it was made?

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:36 pm 
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kermit2482 wrote:
I personally think that no-one has been prosecuted because of the high standing of the person that came up with this solution, afterall this would also be the best person to defend any such allegations or prosecutions!!!!!


So now it is a solution? A solution to what? Why should there be a solution? Should the word solution be interpreted as circumvention?

I think we would all like to know why VOSA and the DFT have not openly published this so called solution, if indeed the solution is as lawful as you limo people say it is?

It is no wonder that those who came up with this latest attempt at circumventing our licensing laws are a little shy at exposing to the public the individual who is responsible for this brainchild?

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:17 pm 
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a class limos wrote:
Hi everybody thanks no tips for the free plug and a link to our website lets get one thing straight schedule 6 is not a loophole self drive is not a loophole some operators out there may be using it as a loophole


Welcome Mr A class. You say in one breath that "schedule six is not a loophole", and then you say in the same breath that "some operators are using it as a loophole". Don't you think your statement is somewhat conflicting?

Quote:
the same way as many taxis out there use loopholes to run there taxi companies.


I think you would agree that to make accusations without foundation is a little disingenuous to those who are on the receiving end of your accusation? Perhaps if you have any real evidence of the illegal activity to which you refer it might go someway in improving your credibility?

Quote:
The limo compaines like ourselves that have paid many thousands of pounds to hire one of vosas top barristers to make sure that we comply with the rules of self drive and operate within these laws.


From what I have read I am not convinced that the person you employed to come up with a solution which enables you to circumvent our licensing laws has done his job. I know for a fact if you had a barristers opinion which I assume you have he would, or at least should have, explained the legal parameters in which you can operate? There is no doubt that under the normal terms of self drive hire you could hire out limos without fear of breaching any laws but I am of the opinion that your operation bears no resemblance to the normal operation of self drive hire. The reason being is because there are too many controlling influences by the limo owner to make the business self drive.

Quote:
AVIS, HERTZ, etc are using loopholes when hiring there minibuses out.


I find this statement remarkable because I wonder where the foundation for it emanates. Are you suggesting Avis and Hertz rent out vehicles for hire or reward and advise their customers where they can obtain a person to drive the vehicle for a fee?

Quote:
i think the problem lies with many taxi operators and drivers out there think we limo operators are taking work away from them


It is a misconception on your part to think that Taxi drivers are concerned about limo operators taking work away from them. People ordering a ride in a limo do so for a specific reason and one which a Taxicab cannot accommodate. Vice versa when hiring a taxi. Therefore I think you probably realise that the interest in unlicensed vehicles goes far beyond any feud that might exist in your own mind between Taxi drivers and limo operators.

The bottom line is the word "unlicensed" and you limo guys that can't find a licensing home need to find legislative loopholes that might accommodate the illegal activity of unlicensed "hire or reward". After all, if we face facts and take your conflicting opening remarks at face value that schedule six is not a loophole, but some operators are using it as a loophole. Then it would appear to me and perhaps everyone else with an open mind, that what you have conveniently found is a "loophole"?

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:31 pm 
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Surely you mean self drive hire system NOT schedule 6 as this is a vehicle criteria not an operating system.

Seems JD we have similar contacts in the goverment deparments we both liase with as your name cropped up today in a conversation ,i must admit your crusade is much clearer to me now than it was yesterday. :wink:

Well it seems the HC/PH fraternity are in for an expensive ride starting in to 2010 and then getting really expensive in 2013.

All new taxis must be wheelchair accessible.2010

2013 NO taxi will be allowed that is not inc existing fleets , all must be changed.

Gotta say guys this EU trash is really getting silly now.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:34 pm 
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S6 Conversion specialist. wrote:
Surely you mean self drive hire system NOT schedule 6 as this is a vehicle criteria not an operating system.


The schedule 6 reference was made by Mr A class and not me. I only responded to his interpretation. I have adequetly explained the regulations surrounding schedule 6 in another post, I don't think there is any misunderstanding on my part as to the meaning but you may wish to advise Mr A Class?

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:45 pm 
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It was only a quote John and not particulaly aimed at you , carm down! :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:02 am 
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Well it seems the HC/PH fraternity are in for an expensive ride starting in to 2010 and then getting really expensive in 2013.

All new taxis must be wheelchair accessible.2010

2013 NO taxi will be allowed that is not inc existing fleets , all must be changed.

Gotta say guys this EU trash is really getting silly now.


Your wrong again S6, at a recent European disability forum it was suggested that 2 vehicles, WAV's and saloons be licenced as taxis so that the majority of the disabled population, not the minority can get access


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:08 am 
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S6 Conversion specialist. wrote:
It was only a quote John and not particulaly aimed at you , carm down! :lol:


I think it was aimed at me, until I reminded you that it was one of your colleagues that actually said it?

As regards calming down, my body temperature constantly remains at 98.6 F. How about you? lol

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:14 am 
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It matters not to me who said i was just correcting the facts.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:17 am 
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skippy41 wrote:
Quote:
Well it seems the HC/PH fraternity are in for an expensive ride starting in to 2010 and then getting really expensive in 2013.

All new taxis must be wheelchair accessible.2010

2013 NO taxi will be allowed that is not inc existing fleets , all must be changed.

Gotta say guys this EU trash is really getting silly now.


Your wrong again S6, at a recent European disability forum it was suggested that 2 vehicles, WAV's and saloons be licenced as taxis so that the majority of the disabled population, not the minority can get access



I take no pleasure in telling you i am right.

Tomorrow evening i have a meeting with some large taxi ops in the midlands who are not at all happy with this very criteria and ruling so i will post facts and hopefully links to documents to prove this if they are actually on the net yet.

Sorry Skippy but what ive posted it factual as grim as it may be. eusasmiles.zip


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:32 am 
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S6 Conversion specialist. wrote:
I take no pleasure in telling you i am right.

Tomorrow evening i have a meeting with some large taxi ops in the midlands who are not at all happy with this very criteria and ruling so i will post facts and hopefully links to documents to prove this if they are actually on the net yet.


The secretary of state decides on the criteria for wheelchair accessibility and it will be him alone who makes that decision. I will be surprised if he doesn't take into consideration the recent best practice advice given by Europe and his own Ministry.

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:56 am 
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http://www.iru.org/index/en_events2007_acesstaxi

http://www.cemt.org/events/PressReleases/2007Taxi.pdf

http://www.cemt.org/topics/handicaps/TaxiSummary.pdf

Just in case you have not read this S6


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:11 am 
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S6 Conversion specialist. wrote:
It matters not to me who said i was just correcting the facts.


If it is just a matter of clarity then the fact is that Mr A Class said it, however, I fully understood what he meant and I didn't see any point in making an issue out of it.

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:43 am 
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POLICY APPROACH TO ACCESSIBLE TAXIS

Introduction

1. The Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) 1995 promised accessibility regulations for licensed taxis. Proposals were announced in 2003, but there has been uncertainty since as to the Government’s plans, and this has not been helpful for drivers, manufacturers or licensing authorities. The Government remains committed to improving taxi accessibility, although it is now recognised that regulation may not be the best way of bringing about change. A regulatory route has not yet been ruled out but, before we proceed any further, Ministers want to be satisfied that we are in a position to choose the best way to deliver the best service.

Background

2. DDA 1995 gives the Secretary of State power to introduce accessibility regulations for several land-based modes of transport. The Government has already used these powers to introduce regulations for trains and trams and for buses and coaches; regulations for taxis would seek to deliver an integrated land-based public transport system for disabled people.

3. However, introducing requirements for accessible taxis is proving much more complex. This is in part because of the design challenges of accommodating wheelchair users within the confines of small vehicles, while also providing reasonable access for other disabled people. The existing legislative framework in England and Wales requires that both sets of requirements are met in each vehicle. It is also due in part to the disparate nature of the trade and, in particular, to the low economic base from which a significant minority of taxis operate, for example, in rural areas.

4. The Department originally consulted in 1997 on implementing regulations but the regulatory impact analysis at that time made it clear that proceeding with a nationwide requirement for accessibility, covering 100% of the taxi fleet, would cause severe economic damage to parts of the trade. After further work, Ministers announced in 2003 that we would approach the issue in a different way by targeting only those places in which the trade was economically viable (larger centres of population, areas with transport interchanges etc). Under the proposals, all vehicles newly licensed as taxis would need to comply with the regulations from 2010, with full compliance by 2020. This would enable accessible vehicles to be phased in gradually and to be delivered first in those areas where there was most demand for spontaneous travel. This approach would cover 60% of licensing authorities and 80% of licensed taxis, but it would still impose significant capital costs on operators.

5. We have since been working on developing the technical specification that would form the basis of the design/performance requirements for accessible taxis, and this process has involved two key stakeholder consultation exercises. We have also provided representation on the ECMT/IRU Taxi Group, which has been reviewing the issue of access to taxis as part of its 2004-2006 work programme, and we await publication of the Group's final report.

6. Although the Department issued general advice to licensing authorities in September 2002, only 43 licensing authorities out of 343 (12%) have introduced a mandatory accessible taxis policy in England and Wales. The present approach is to leave the determination of policy requirements to licensing authorities, but this means that, while wheelchair accessible taxis are already operating in some parts of the country under licensing requirements imposed at local level, the standards of accessibility vary considerably, including the extent to which taxis can be hailed on the street or at ranks, rather than booked by telephone.

An Alternative Approach to Regulation?

7. Experience to-date bears testimony to the fact that ensuring the introduction of more accessible taxis is not an easy task. Added to this, is the Government's current focus on reducing burdens on business from regulation and inspection, and on freedoms and powers for local government and local communities to shape their own services advocated in the White Paper 'Strong and prosperous communities'.

8. To help move the debate forward, there are therefore a number of questions on which we would welcome views:

· How could central government guidance on the design/adaptation of wheelchair accessible taxis allow for the continued use of current accessible taxis, while at the same time encouraging improvements in design?

· In order to benefit the consumer, should these design standards be applied to all new taxis or a proportion of new vehicles in each licensing area?

· Should this decision be left to local licensing authorities to determine, on the grounds that, unlike rail and bus, this is a policy best decided at local level in consultation with disabled people and other interested parties?

· How can central government assist local licensing authorities in reaching a decision on the proportion of accessible taxis?

· What policies would encourage taxi operators to introduce wheelchair accessible taxis?

· Would issuing more detailed design standards as guidance, rather than as accessibility regulations, lead to significant improvements in the number of accessible taxis?

· What evidence is there of the additional benefits for disabled people that would accrue from the large capital investment required to make taxis even more accessible?

· Should we retain the option of going down the regulatory route if, following a monitoring programme of several years, a voluntary code of practice was found to be ineffective?


MIU
9 November 2006
http://www.ddsg.org.uk/taxi/

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