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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:19 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
toots wrote:
Gusmac wrote:
You changed the context here. My answer was not in response to this question.


You answered a question I asked Jasbar :?


Humble apologies.
I didn't realise that you only wanted Jasbar's opinion. Silly me :roll:

I'll just let you continue your private chat with Jasbar and hope nobody else foolishly mistakes this for an open forum.
That way you won't feel compelled to twist their answers in order to misrepresent their views. :oops:

BTW, I did say you would have the last word.
Trying to debate with you reminds me of herding cats....................pointless in the extreme.


Ffs Gusmac

jasbar wrote:
Those who should be leaving a hard pressed trade will be encouraged to remain in it.


So I asked

toots wrote:
Who are those that should be leaving?


Now to me that is a simple enough question. Yes it was aimed at jasbar because it was he that put the previous comment. So I wanted to know who exactly should be leaving the trade that may possibly stay. I wasn't bothered that you answered with this

gusmac wrote:
Drivers who have retired or moved on to other jobs.


I'm not bothered that you answered it, but, at this point I didn't know if you meant people that are driving who had retired from another trade or whether you meant taxi drivers who had retired. So I asked you this

toots wrote:
So if a driver has previously retired from a job (any job?) then they shouldn't become a taxi driver?

If it is a secondary job or the 2nd part of 2 part time jobs they shouldn't become a taxi driver?


I haven't changed the context or twisted anything, I asked 2 questions.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:54 pm 
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caledonian cabbie wrote:
So instead of driving an HC is an unrestricted market you've 'cracked it' by driving a PH in an unrestricted market.


Yes, because I wanted to drive a saloon vehicle. I didn't create a fuss about not having what I wanted in the taxi trade I just moved over

caledonian cabbie wrote:
But if drivers would prefer the alternative of HC then you think they shouldn't be afforded that option.


Did I say that? I don't think I did. I may have said that if they want to drive a saloon they could always be a ph driver. Much the same as I've said 'if you want to work in a derestricted market, become a ph driver'. I'm not saying they have to, nor am I saying they shouldn't fight for what they want. It's just an option available, that's all

Quote:
And despite 'cracking it' through your own choice of PH, you want to limit the number of PHs by the backdoor


I didn't say I wanted to limit ph. What I said was I think operators should have evidence of work available before they take on more drivers, who incidently are going to pay them money for the work they have. It's kind of like you paying for electricity that you may or may not receive, but, that's the chance you take :? I'd like to see a little transparency within the ph trade especially when it comes to the larger companies, but, if it doesn't happen I won't spit my dummy out I'm not that bothered. If it came to point that I didn't like the trade that much I'd leave, simples. Before you jump on it I'm not suggesting that if you don't like something you should leave, but, it is an option if your circumstances allowed it. If they'd rather try and change it then good luck to them.

Quote:
What would happen if the Tootsmobile was deemed surplus to requirements under your PH proposal?


It looks like I'd be doing more hours in one of my other 2 jobs or alternatively I could go out and get my own work :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Caledonian Cabbie wrote:
tx_op wrote:
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Dundee/article/10032/centre-for-cities-report-makes-mainly-grim-reading-for-dundee.html :shock:


First time I've seen Dundee and Birkenhead mentioned in the same sentence :lol:

Must be something to do with taxi derestriction, eh Toots? :D


No, but it will go part way to explain why drivers don't just 'move on' they just work longer hours :wink:

If Peel Holdings stick to their proposals it'll be the best looking poor place in the country :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:02 pm 
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toots wrote:
If Peel Holdings stick to their proposals it'll be the best looking poor place in the country :lol: :lol:


A little like polishing dog poo.

CC

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:16 pm 
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ooops

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:33 pm 
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toots wrote:

I haven't changed the context or twisted anything, I asked 2 questions.


You took these two questions, my answer to a different point and put them together. You will find it further up the thread.

toots wrote:

toots wrote:
So if a driver has previously retired from a job (any job?) then they shouldn't become a taxi driver?

If it is a secondary job or the 2nd part of 2 part time jobs they shouldn't become a taxi driver?


Gusmac wrote:
So just so long as due process is applied, all is rosy in Toots' garden?




You will also find that the correct context for this answer was this:

gusmac wrote:
toots wrote:
gusmac wrote:
toots wrote:
Gusmac wrote:
Offices with fleets of taxis for rent which drivers with no plate have to drive.


There has to be some kind of market out there for those drivers that prefer to rent, you can't make them own thier own vehicle.


Yet it seems acceptable to make them rent one and deny them their own?


I didn't say that. If you're asking do I agree with restriction then the answer is yes providing there is a SUD completed


So just so long as due process is applied, all is rosy in Toots' garden?


My actual responses to your questions are here:

gusmac wrote:
toots wrote:
gusmac wrote:
toots wrote:

Gusmac wrote:
Drivers who have retired or moved on to other jobs.


So if a driver has previously retired from a job (any job?) then they shouldn't become a taxi driver?

I didn't say that - you did.
By retired I meant retired from driving a taxi
.


Yes you did say it and if you only meant retired taxi drivers you could have said :roll:

I didn't say anyone shouldn't be a taxi driver. You chose to interpret my words that way.
I thought most people would have understood the statement without further explaination.


and

gusmac wrote:
toots wrote:
gusmac wrote:
toots wrote:
If it is a secondary job or the 2nd part of 2 part time jobs they shouldn't become a taxi driver?


I didn't say that either.


You're quite right you didn't, I did. It was a question and I obviousy didn't make that clear with the question mark at the end, I'm sorry :wink:


And here's me thinking it was you misrepresenting my views again.
Your apology lacks sincerity.


You will also find this further up the thread.
For the sake of clarity, I have coloured my answers red and yours blue.

You did twist what I said and the evidence is there for all to see.
I did consider asking Alex to remove your post but on reflection I think it says more about you if it is left as is.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:05 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
toots wrote:
If Peel Holdings stick to their proposals it'll be the best looking poor place in the country :lol: :lol:


A little like polishing dog poo.

CC


Probably :lol: :lol: But it can't get any worse than it is :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:44 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
toots wrote:
jasbar wrote:
Those who should be leaving a hard pressed trade will be encouraged to remain in it.


Who are those that should be leaving?



Drivers who have retired or moved on to other jobs.
Offices with fleets of taxis for rent which drivers with no plate have to drive.
People with no connection to the trade, other than holding plates.

These people are taking money directly from drivers' pockets to line their own.
They are not (as some would suggest) doing anyone a favour - except themselves.
If they weren't making a profit, they wouldn't be doing it.
Profit which is paid for by the guys in front of us at the rank (or above us on the sheet) who are working extra hours to earn it and making the rest of us wait longer for a job.
We all pay for this, not just the guys who have to rent.


toots wrote:
So if a driver has previously retired from a job (any job?) then they shouldn't become a taxi driver?

If it is a secondary job or the 2nd part of 2 part time jobs they shouldn't become a taxi driver?


I can see the error of my ways. Instead of asking the two questions that I did ask, in relation to the bit in bold, I should have just said 'what do you mean?' :roll: Next time I'll keep it simple :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:53 pm 
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toots wrote:

I can see the error of my ways.


This I doubt.


toots wrote:
Instead of asking the two questions that I did ask, in relation to the bit in bold, I should have just said 'what do you mean?' :roll: Next time I'll keep it simple :wink:




Just don't swap answers around to suit yourself, like you did here.

Quote:
toots wrote:
So if a driver has previously retired from a job (any job?) then they shouldn't become a taxi driver?

If it is a secondary job or the 2nd part of 2 part time jobs they shouldn't become a taxi driver?


Gusmac wrote:
So just so long as due process is applied, all is rosy in Toots' garden?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:21 am 
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toots wrote:
Yes, because I wanted to drive a saloon vehicle. I didn't create a fuss about not having what I wanted in the taxi trade I just moved over


But you don't think a PH driver should be able to drive a WAV in an unrestricted market if they so choose.

Quote:
Did I say that? I don't think I did. I may have said that if they want to drive a saloon they could always be a ph driver. Much the same as I've said 'if you want to work in a derestricted market, become a ph driver'. I'm not saying they have to, nor am I saying they shouldn't fight for what they want. It's just an option available, that's all


Typical evasion. You either support restricted numbers - and thus the choice of drivers to join whichever sector they prefer - or you don't.

And we know which one it is.

Quote:
I didn't say I wanted to limit ph. What I said was I think operators should have evidence of work available before they take on more drivers...


Sounds just like the methodology for restricting HCs, thus you want to limit them. Or if you're saying the excess should just go to another office, that would just reduce work there, and I suspect that if other offices had excess work the drivers would have gone there in the first place.

Thus you're either restricting PH numbers or rearranging the deckchairs slightly, so which is it?

Oh, and you seem to speak about drivers and vehicles interchangeably, which perhaps reflects the official position when limiting numbers - they don't seem to appreciate the difference a lot of the time. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:28 am 
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toots wrote:
Quote:
It's kind of like you paying for electricity that you may or may not receive, but, that's the chance you take :?


But which self-employed person or business is guaranteed work?

And please don't say HCs in restricted areas :wink:

Quote:
I'd like to see a little transparency within the ph trade especially when it comes to the larger companies, but, if it doesn't happen I won't spit my dummy out I'm not that bothered. If it came to point that I didn't like the trade that much I'd leave, simples. Before you jump on it I'm not suggesting that if you don't like something you should leave, but, it is an option if your circumstances allowed it.


Well then, here's a good idea - why don't you say that to HC owners in restricted areas who want to stop others exercising their choice and leave the trade to those who don't mind working in a restricted market :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:30 am 
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toots wrote:
Quote:
What would happen if the Tootsmobile was deemed surplus to requirements under your PH proposal?


It looks like I'd be doing more hours in one of my other 2 jobs or alternatively I could go out and get my own work :wink:


But that would just take work off the other ops and drivers, thus defeating the purpose of the whole thing .

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:36 am 
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Caledonian Cabbie wrote:
toots wrote:
Quote:
What would happen if the Tootsmobile was deemed surplus to requirements under your PH proposal?


It looks like I'd be doing more hours in one of my other 2 jobs or alternatively I could go out and get my own work :wink:


But that would just take work off the other ops and drivers, thus defeating the purpose of the whole thing .


It's not about whether I take work from other operators it's about operators taking money from drivers for work they don't have

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:35 pm 
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toots wrote:
Caledonian Cabbie wrote:
toots wrote:
Quote:
What would happen if the Tootsmobile was deemed surplus to requirements under your PH proposal?


It looks like I'd be doing more hours in one of my other 2 jobs or alternatively I could go out and get my own work :wink:


But that would just take work off the other ops and drivers, thus defeating the purpose of the whole thing .


It's not about whether I take work from other operators it's about operators taking money from drivers for work they don't have


You allude to the fact that there isn't enough work among all the PH offices to go around all the cars they collectively have on their circuits.

Should your suggestion come to pass, what happens to the surplus drivers?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:38 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
toots wrote:
Caledonian Cabbie wrote:
toots wrote:
Quote:
What would happen if the Tootsmobile was deemed surplus to requirements under your PH proposal?


It looks like I'd be doing more hours in one of my other 2 jobs or alternatively I could go out and get my own work :wink:


But that would just take work off the other ops and drivers, thus defeating the purpose of the whole thing .


It's not about whether I take work from other operators it's about operators taking money from drivers for work they don't have


You allude to the fact that there isn't enough work among all the PH offices to go around all the cars they collectively have on their circuits.

Should your suggestion come to pass, what happens to the surplus drivers?


The only thing I allude to is the fact that operator companies are taking money from drivers for work they do not have. That's not to say the work isn't there but they may have to get off their lazy fat ar$es and go and get it if what I suggest came to pass, otherwise they may have to settle for a lower quota of drivers to line their pockets. It may also encourage drivers to perhaps have a go on their own and build up small companies rather than rely on large companies that don't do their job properly to get them work. I've never suggested it'll fix everything or anything for that matter it's just something to mull over. From that idea a better idea may evolve, who knows

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