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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:33 pm 
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toots wrote:
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"We do see [shale gas] as a game changer in places like the United States, but we don't see the same pace of change or potential here in the UK at the moment.


Is that purely because of the size of the USA or because they're not afraid to try something different?



Because its easier to drink someone elses lager than to get your own. :shock:

CC

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:46 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
We have the means to be reliant on nobody for our energy needs.
You want us dependent on foreign coal supplies to supplement our dependence on foreign gas.
A gas supply which has been and still is used by Russia for political ends.
Chinese coal and Russian gas. And you call us desperate. :shock:


We may have the means....I would contend we always had the means, mines were closed because it was cheaper to import coal from Australia and Poland......it had nothing to do with stocks running out - purely the cost of extracting the stuff.

We are 'dependent' upon foreign supplies of oil and gas and caol for the purposes of the 'market' - it is cheaper to get an iphone from china - where someone is paid 10p per hour than to build an iphone factory in Scotland or England where the workers will demand a few pence more.

Whether that is right or wrong, and I believe it is wrong - is down to the consumers, which thinking about it - puts me in a minority.

What I am saying - it doesnt matter if scotland or the UK has the resources - where we obtain them from is determined by the market.

The points in respect of wind and wave and solar energy still stand - for what power they offer - they are "currently" operating at a total loss and are in fact massively subsidised by the tax payer.

You could argue that perhaps if we subsidised our mines - we could re-open them.

You could argue - that the subsidy should be used to find the technology which makes the wind, wave and solar energy far better.

You could argue that if this country has invested more heavily in nuclear power 50 years ago when we were world leaders - we may not be having this discussion now.

The fact remains the energy needs of our nation have been left to the god of the market, and when that god is angry - we pay more.

CC

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:02 pm 
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bloodnock wrote:
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Desperate is what I call your pathetic attempts to rubbish all things Scottish. Even to the point where you find amusement in the shameful unionist attacks on a 92 year old man. You are a disgrace


Pathetic yet typical of the SNP, Twisting words to suit their own ends.....I find nothing amusing about anyone picking on a 92 year old...though even the old guy himself seen a funny side to it, But the Joseph Goebbels of the nasty party are Humorless grey Sad Sacs, pretty ripe considering all the venom that's spewed forth from the SNP radicals of late in its hatred of non SNP conformists.

And true to your loony tune SNP mantra..if someone has a Different view to that of the SNP then its virtually treason.

What a bunch of righteous plonkers, get over yourselves, we Real Scots will settle your lots Nasty party bullying once for all in the referendum.

How dare you call me a Disgrace, you and your likes are a bloody menace to Democracy at any national level. People have seen through your lot, this is the End game for the SNP dream.

I can Sum up the SNP in three words "Bullies, Bullies, Bullies". :lol: :lol: :lol:

bloodnock wrote:
Quote:
Back in the 60's, some people started to link their primitive computers together to form an Internet.
You would have seen only some young geeks wasting their time on something of no benefit.

God help us if you were the one to decide on the future of the mobile phone back in 1985.


The meandering rantings of a man obsessed... :shock:


No reply to the points raised then?
What about the nuclear waste, stupid?
Russian gas? Chinese coal?

No answers or not a problem to you and the rest of the dependency faction?

Just your usual anyone who doesn't want to be british must be a **** routine, and scots are to pathetic to run their own affairs line.
You are a disgrace and I do dare to say it.
Your line seems to be Scotland lives off the English and should be content with English subsidies.
That is a disgraceful way to look at your own country.
If I were the average Englishman, I'd probably find that pretty offensive. :roll:

End game? It hasn't even started yet.
Desperate meanderings? I think not. You want to see desperate, look at the liebour party in Glasgow. Now that's desperate.
We will see who is finished this week though, won't we?

Oh, and my sense of humour is in fine shape.
Dinosaurs like you always make me laugh.
Extinction beckons Britosaurus :badgrin:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:09 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
gusmac wrote:
We have the means to be reliant on nobody for our energy needs.
You want us dependent on foreign coal supplies to supplement our dependence on foreign gas.
A gas supply which has been and still is used by Russia for political ends.
Chinese coal and Russian gas. And you call us desperate. :shock:


We may have the means....I would contend we always had the means, mines were closed because it was cheaper to import coal from Australia and Poland......it had nothing to do with stocks running out - purely the cost of extracting the stuff.

We are 'dependent' upon foreign supplies of oil and gas and caol for the purposes of the 'market' - it is cheaper to get an iphone from china - where someone is paid 10p per hour than to build an iphone factory in Scotland or England where the workers will demand a few pence more.

Whether that is right or wrong, and I believe it is wrong - is down to the consumers, which thinking about it - puts me in a minority.

What I am saying - it doesnt matter if scotland or the UK has the resources - where we obtain them from is determined by the market.

The points in respect of wind and wave and solar energy still stand - for what power they offer - they are "currently" operating at a total loss and are in fact massively subsidised by the tax payer.

You could argue that perhaps if we subsidised our mines - we could re-open them.

You could argue - that the subsidy should be used to find the technology which makes the wind, wave and solar energy far better.

You could argue that if this country has invested more heavily in nuclear power 50 years ago when we were world leaders - we may not be having this discussion now.

The fact remains the energy needs of our nation have been left to the god of the market, and when that god is angry - we pay more.

CC


I agree with most of what you say here.
But:
Where do you get the experienced miners who are still fit enough to do the job?
How many of the mines are still workable after more than a generation of neglect?

Others have continued with nuclear power, yet none of them have come up with a means to safely dispose of radioactive waste.
Perhaps we weren't wrong to back off from it?

Renewables will not always be so inefficent.
With continued investment, they could be the sustainable power we need for the future.
Abandon them now and we may be missing the bus.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:30 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
I agree with most of what you say here.
But:
Where do you get the experienced miners who are still fit enough to do the job?
How many of the mines are still workable after more than a generation of neglect?

Others have continued with nuclear power, yet none of them have come up with a means to safely dispose of radioactive waste.
Perhaps we weren't wrong to back off from it?


I presume mines can be pumped out and made safe and I presume we still have the knowledge to train people, if necessary?

My point in respect of nuclear power was that we were a world leader, yet for one reason or another we stopped doing the nuclear thing - presumably because it wasnt politically possible - I tend to think - perhaps wrongly - if we had invested in the future of the nuclear industry we may have found solutions - we just stopped the evolution of it and I think this has been to our cost.

Like wind energy - I think everyone realises it is a resourse with potential, more so with tidal energy - yet the power currently obtained is pitiful for the cost and damage they do to our countryside......However - if you think about those first motor cars which rolled off the production lines - they were sh*te compared to todays - even those produced 30 years ago are way behind what we currently have in terms of engine technology - who's to say what can be achieved in terms of wind power in the future - if an investment is made?

The above being said - it obviously needs investment in technology to make the damned things more productive in terms of what they generate - I would think any government worth its salt would ensure through taxation of the current energy sources to ensure such investment is made - it shouldnt be a case of reaping now and paying later.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:09 pm 
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Gusmac wrote:
Where do you get the experienced miners who are still fit enough to do the job?


From the dole queues

Gusmac wrote:
Renewables will not always be so inefficent.


Are you sure about this?

Gusmac wrote:
With continued investment, they could be the sustainable power we need for the future.


How much of your money are you prepared to give via taxation to ensure the investments are made?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:20 pm 
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toots wrote:
How much of your money are you prepared to give via taxation to ensure the investments are made?


Thats the key question......ultimately in terms of gus's thinking, just how free will the scots be with independence?

My opinion is no change, the country will still be run by the people that run this country.....the politicians appear to be nothing more than a facade albeit a tartan facade.

CC

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:20 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
bloodnock wrote:
Quote:
Desperate is what I call your pathetic attempts to rubbish all things Scottish. Even to the point where you find amusement in the shameful unionist attacks on a 92 year old man. You are a disgrace


Pathetic yet typical of the SNP, Twisting words to suit their own ends.....I find nothing amusing about anyone picking on a 92 year old...though even the old guy himself seen a funny side to it, But the Joseph Goebbels of the nasty party are Humorless grey Sad Sacs, pretty ripe considering all the venom that's spewed forth from the SNP radicals of late in its hatred of non SNP conformists.

And true to your loony tune SNP mantra..if someone has a Different view to that of the SNP then its virtually treason.

What a bunch of righteous plonkers, get over yourselves, we Real Scots will settle your lots Nasty party bullying once for all in the referendum.

How dare you call me a Disgrace, you and your likes are a bloody menace to Democracy at any national level. People have seen through your lot, this is the End game for the SNP dream.

I can Sum up the SNP in three words "Bullies, Bullies, Bullies". :lol: :lol: :lol:

bloodnock wrote:
Quote:
Back in the 60's, some people started to link their primitive computers together to form an Internet.
You would have seen only some young geeks wasting their time on something of no benefit.

God help us if you were the one to decide on the future of the mobile phone back in 1985.


The meandering rantings of a man obsessed... :shock:


No reply to the points raised then?
What about the nuclear waste, stupid?
Russian gas? Chinese coal?

No answers or not a problem to you and the rest of the dependency faction?

Just your usual anyone who doesn't want to be british must be a **** routine, and scots are to pathetic to run their own affairs line.
You are a disgrace and I do dare to say it.
Your line seems to be Scotland lives off the English and should be content with English subsidies.
That is a disgraceful way to look at your own country.
If I were the average Englishman, I'd probably find that pretty offensive. :roll:

End game? It hasn't even started yet.
Desperate meanderings? I think not. You want to see desperate, look at the liebour party in Glasgow. Now that's desperate.
We will see who is finished this week though, won't we?

Oh, and my sense of humour is in fine shape.
Dinosaurs like you always make me laugh.
Extinction beckons Britosaurus :badgrin:



At last..a cure for Insomnia.. :doubt:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:59 am 
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bloodnock wrote:
At last..a cure for Insomnia.. :doubt:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:27 am 
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ZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZ :doubt:


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