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Then change the system Skull. Change it. Don't just whitter on about how bad it is.


And the answer is? Do nothing?
There's a plan.


You do nothing and hope for the same.


You are the one who's dreaming. You don't have any answers do you?

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Maybe isn't good enough. The victims deserve better than that.

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Any clever Lawyer or Group could create an element of doubt in almost any Court sentence ever given. It's just not practical to pursue such doubts in cases like this..He was convicted, He's Dead, No on else in the frame for the crime, He can no longer give evidence and It's so long ago that more reliable witness memories have dimmed, No, sorry, It's just a waste of time and money. We Cannot afford such niceties and moralistic nonsense as this in these austere time.

So justice and accountability should be determined by cost and the state of the nation's finances?

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It's a question of faith, Gusmac. When people educate themselves and each other, as to how “the system” fails their interests, change is then inevitable. It's your vote that keeps their system alive because you play their game.

Have a look around the world, Governments teetering on the brink and some have already collapsed, and all down to people who have lost faith in the system, have begun to wake-up.

I simply refuse to play their silly game. I know who the system represents and whose interests are being looked after, and it's not mine. So why should I vote for more of the same?


You are a patriot Gusmac, a dreamer who believes in a time when Scotland was a Great Nation, that never was. You want to bring back the good old days before the English robbed us of our heritage and Independence – FREEDOM!! What a load of bollocks.

And you think the people of this union are going to just wake up and stop voting? Now that's what I call bollocks
It will never happen Dream on son.

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There's even less of a chance if you have your way.

When people lose faith in the system the Government promise reforms, to bring people back into line. And so it has been for generations.

If people wake-up and educate themselves, and stop voting for a government that doesn't represent their interest and demanded a government that does, we will have the government we want. Some even call it, people power, that's people like you and I, Gusmac.

Your vote for same, my vote for change, who's the mug?

In your opinion, not mine.
The way I see it, change would be easier in a small country of 5.2 million than it would be in one of 60 million. But I'm listening if you want to explain to me how it's easier to change the minds of 11 times as many people.


Like I said, hell will freeze over first.
As another thought, much of the people power we have seen lately has been in oppressive regimes in the middle east, where the people want democracy like ours or a government run by non transparent people with a religious agenda.
If you're right, have they all wasted their time?


I vote for change, you vote for nothing.
In fact you don't vote at all and you hope for everyone else to do the same.
I'd say that makes you the mug, not me.

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Yes..because its tough [edited by admin] on his behalf and Beside he's Dead and He's already been found guilty, I'm fed up of being the Appeals court soft touch of the world. Its something we cant just afford.

Perhaps we should just do away with the courts altogether? Not to mention all those expensive prisons.
We could just shoot them out of hand. Save ourselves a fortune

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So what has your way achieved, Gusmac? We have the very rich and powerful running the country through their puppet representatives. No real transparency of government, with public officials virtually unaccountable for their actions, and a political class telling us what we don't need to know, is for our own good.

This is, the doctrine of “democracy” you subscribe to, is it not?

Now let's look at what I want.

I want transparency of government with direct accountability to the electorate, independent arbitration, with the courts being a choice of last resort.

In short, I want to know what they do without having to ask for permission. Some people call this, Public Scrutiny.

“Democracy is the government of the people, by the people, for the people”

Abraham Lincoln.


Oh and as for your repressive regimes wanting “democracy,”who do you think is carving up control for their rich and powerful chums and themselves, that's right Gusmac, the British and American Governments, to mention a few.

I think a real mug would believe that Scotland will be different through voting for wee Eck, and Independence. Like I already said, it's time to wake-up.

I should also mention, which governments do you think supported these "repressive regimes", now switching to Democracy?

I'd wager a bit of money we wont support the new 'democratic' regimes unless they toe the line.

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

My way hasn't happened yet. Once it has, I'd be in a position to answer you.
Your way will never happen.

No, this is democracy as you describe it.


I want free fries with my Big Mac. I'm not going to boycott MacDonald's until I get what I want.


Why quote Lincoln, unless you believe he delivered or practised what he preached?
If he took your attitude, there would be two countries instead of one and he'd still be waiting for the slavers to emancipate their slaves.


Never mind whose carving up what for whoever. You could have just answered the question.
I asked you if these people had wasted their time trying to change things.
After all, they could have done nothing and waited for things to change on there own.



No, a real mug buries his head in the sand and waits for a better tomorrow.

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I'd wager skull thinks they're not worth having because they're not accountable or transparent enough.

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