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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:32 am 
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gusmac wrote:
Nidge2 wrote:
It's going to close get used to it.


You think?
http://news.sky.com/story/1159539/grang ... inute-deal

Quote:
Go and console your mate Salmond and ask him for a bailout.

Oh sorry you haven't got any money have you. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Scotland has plenty of money. What we don't have is control of it, a situation we plan to rectify next year :D



On lesser wages, well done Unite for shafting your members.


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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:40 am 
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Nidge2 wrote:


On lesser wages, well done Unite for shafting your members.


Speak about having it both ways. [edited by admin] priceless :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:57 am 
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gusmac wrote:
Nidge2 wrote:


On lesser wages, well done Unite for shafting your members.


Speak about having it both ways. [edited by admin] priceless :shock:



It hasn't been rubber stamped yet, it's got to be given the green light from Ratcliffe and the shareholders.


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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Regardless of whatever wages the guys/girls are on - does anyone honestly believe that they would have paid them big money unless it was there to be paid.

Look beyond the overall big picture - this is NOT about a company that is not making big profits.......this is about turning Britain into a nation that will be only too happy to work for the wages of a person in India/China.

To anyone who is saying that the refinery workers should take a drop, then take this on board. For all of the scaremongering going on around the world there are still record making profits being made by companies, unfortunately as ever the workforce do not share in the real wealth - hence the reason that we have recession after recession.

The reason being used for the financial suppression of the population workforce is the country is technically bankrupt! the "YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU" type of bollox, so people take that, being under the misapprehension that their country cares about them!!!!

When I see politicians/company directors/captains of industry etc etc taking wage and pension cuts, then I might think about doing my bit. Until then defend what you have, as they will use any lies to take it off of you.

This is the biggest political own goal by Cameron who has to my knowledge stood by and done nothing - his inaction will only add to and strengthen the resolve of the Scottish people to break away and control their own destiny....................who can blame them.

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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:15 pm 
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I agree with John =D>

Where does the workers wage come into it - what a person is paid breeds jealousy - the fact of the matter is the management will have been paid many times more.

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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:59 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
No justification for conduct of Ineos
Herald View
Thursday 24 October 2013

Disbelief.
Distress. Anger. That is what is left for ­workers at the Ineos ­petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. "I feel sick," said one employee, struggling to get his head round the bombshell announcement that the plant was to close. "That's it. Folk will be lucky if they have a house at Christmas."
Are such concerns for worker welfare keeping Ineos owner Jim Ratcliffe awake at night? That seems highly questionable. The conduct of Ineos, painting the union as culpable for the plant's closure and the loss of its members' own jobs, has been at times astonishingly heavy-handed.
Even the refinery cannot be said to be safe: Mr Ratcliffe has warned that if the petrochemical plant closes it could be the end for the refinery as well.
It may well be that the company can legitimately argue that aspects of the way Grangemouth is run need to be modernised. Some observers of this dispute may have been surprised to learn that a final salary pensions scheme for Grangemouth employees exists, given how many such schemes run by other companies have closed, relatively uncontroversially. However, none of that justifies, or indeed explains, the behaviour of the company, which unions and others understandably find highly suspect.
Consider how this dispute began: over the treatment of one particular union official, Unite convenor Stephen Deans, who was involved in the row over the selection of a Labour candidate in Falkirk, where he is chairman of the constituency party. He was suspended and then reinstated and is now facing an internal investigation. Suddenly, however, there was a sharp escalation into a very different dispute about a pay freeze and changes to pensions.
At the same time, it has proved exceptionally difficult to unpick the exact nature of this complex company's financial position. The company has claimed that it is losing £10m a month from the Grangemouth operations and would close in 2017 without new investment and changes to workers' terms and conditions, but its latest accounts show that the petrochemical plant - the part it has decided to close - made a profit of £7m last year. Those same accounts indicate that the company could make decent profits out of the business in the future.
It is true to say that the company has been raising the issue of pensions and pay for quite some time, and indeed was defeated in a dispute with the union five years ago over the pension scheme, but if the prospect of turning a profit from Grangemouth is so drastically challenging as to make closure of part of it the only option, workers may wonder why Ineos acquired it in the first place.
Ineos is the fourth-biggest chemicals company in the world, with 51 manufacturing facilities in 11 countries in North America, Europe and Asia, and it has form when it comes to playing tough in its industrial relations. When it wanted to get staff off the final salary scheme at its Newton Aycliffe plant in County Durham recently, staff were given little choice but to sign up. When the union balloted for strike action, Ineos transferred the workers to a Belgian sister company under TUPE employment rules that do not safeguard pension rights.
Make no mistake: this has been no 1970s style stand-off between recalcitrant workers and their exasperated bosses. It is the company which has shut down the plant. The company's letter to workers proposing changes to pensions and pay, should not have brought the shutters down, but become the reference point for negotiation. Instead, the message was clear, brutal and one-sided: take it or leave it. Mr Ratcliffe's comments made clear that this was an ultimatum. The workers had three days to decide which way to vote. If he didn't get the answer he wanted - capitulation to the company's demands - there would be no "happy ending". He has certainly been true to his word.
The company has said it is to call in liquidators within the next few days, but this story is not over yet.
There were signs late last night that the union has been forced into a climbdown over its previous refusal to bow to the company's demands, raising hopes there may yet be an 11th-hour reprieve.
The Scottish Government is also seeking buyers for the plant and peace has broken out in place of the usual antagonism between Westminster and Scottish ministers as efforts are made to avert the closure of this hugely significant part of the economy.
What happens if government money is put on the table to assist with a sale? Would Ineos itself seek to avail itself of such funding? That would certainly fuel the suspicions of those who suspect this dispute of being calculated. If no buyer can be found, the Scottish Government should reconsider saving Grangemouth as it did Prestwick Airport.
Michael Moore - until recently Scottish Secretary - said closure "would be an act of industrial vandalism" the likes of which had not been seen in decades. Many, far beyond the membership of Unite, will agree. If it shuts for good, it will be Ineos, not the devastated workers, that bears the lion's share of responsibility.

capitalists rape the world for their greed, does anyone seriously believe its a good idea to allow these scum to control our energy sources???????/

As for Nidge a typical Notts scab glad to say i watched plenty of them getting good kickings and celebrated when MAGGIE turned on them and closed their pits absolute effing SUB HUMAN VERMIN :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:

http://archive.is/TKJfE

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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:03 pm 
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cabby john wrote:
Regardless of whatever wages the guys/girls are on - does anyone honestly believe that they would have paid them big money unless it was there to be paid.

Look beyond the overall big picture - this is NOT about a company that is not making big profits.......this is about turning Britain into a nation that will be only too happy to work for the wages of a person in India/China.

To anyone who is saying that the refinery workers should take a drop, then take this on board. For all of the scaremongering going on around the world there are still record making profits being made by companies, unfortunately as ever the workforce do not share in the real wealth - hence the reason that we have recession after recession.

The reason being used for the financial suppression of the population workforce is the country is technically bankrupt! the "YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU" type of bollox, so people take that, being under the misapprehension that their country cares about them!!!!

When I see politicians/company directors/captains of industry etc etc taking wage and pension cuts, then I might think about doing my bit. Until then defend what you have, as they will use any lies to take it off of you.

This is the biggest political own goal by Cameron who has to my knowledge stood by and done nothing - his inaction will only add to and strengthen the resolve of the Scottish people to break away and control their own destiny....................who can blame them.


GREAT POST JOHN =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:12 pm 
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cabby john wrote:
Regardless of whatever wages the guys/girls are on - does anyone honestly believe that they would have paid them big money unless it was there to be paid.

Look beyond the overall big picture - this is NOT about a company that is not making big profits.......this is about turning Britain into a nation that will be only too happy to work for the wages of a person in India/China.

To anyone who is saying that the refinery workers should take a drop, then take this on board. For all of the scaremongering going on around the world there are still record making profits being made by companies, unfortunately as ever the workforce do not share in the real wealth - hence the reason that we have recession after recession.

The reason being used for the financial suppression of the population workforce is the country is technically bankrupt! the "YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU" type of bollox, so people take that, being under the misapprehension that their country cares about them!!!!

When I see politicians/company directors/captains of industry etc etc taking wage and pension cuts, then I might think about doing my bit. Until then defend what you have, as they will use any lies to take it off of you.

This is the biggest political own goal by Cameron who has to my knowledge stood by and done nothing - his inaction will only add to and strengthen the resolve of the Scottish people to break away and control their own destiny....................who can blame them.



John, they were getting £11K a year in shift allowances alone.


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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:32 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:


John, they were getting £11K a year in shift allowances alone.


Are you jealous Nidge? Is it more than you make these days?
More than you trousered when you were scabbing for Thatcher?
Just how poor would you like them to be before they get to protect what they have?

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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:30 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Nidge2 wrote:


John, they were getting £11K a year in shift allowances alone.


Are you jealous Nidge? Is it more than you make these days?
More than you trousered when you were scabbing for Thatcher?
Just how poor would you like them to be before they get to protect what they have?



I didn't scab you fucktard. In my last year as miner I trouserd £71K.


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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:33 pm 
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I'm most pleased the site can continue as much as it is as of now.

I'm also pleased the union had the balls to back track.

But I'm pleased the most that three of the lefties biggest foes have led to the site continuing for many many years ahead.

A capitalist company bringing in shale gas from the good old US of A. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:44 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Nidge2 wrote:


John, they were getting £11K a year in shift allowances alone.


Are you jealous Nidge? Is it more than you make these days?
More than you trousered when you were scabbing for Thatcher?
Just how poor would you like them to be before they get to protect what they have?



I didn't scab you fucktard. In my last year as miner I trouserd £71K.


:-"

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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:42 am 
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gusmac wrote:


I didn't scab you fucktard. In my last year as miner I trouserd £71K.


:-"[/quote]


Nice, the way you completely ignore the fact that this actually started out with the union closing ranks and trying to close down disciplinary investigations into a man accused of using company time to pursue a political agenda completely unconnected with either the plant, or his role as a union rep there.

You union dinosaurs just don't get it. The 1970s and 80's have gone. You can't have them back. The days when British industry was characterised by the tail wagging the dog are gone, and good riddance.


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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:18 am 
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Nidge2 wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Nidge2 wrote:

I didn't scab you fucktard. In my last year as miner I trouserd £71K.


:-"



Nice, the way you completely ignore the fact that this actually started out with the union closing ranks and trying to close down disciplinary investigations into a man accused of using company time to pursue a political agenda completely unconnected with either the plant, or his role as a union rep there.

You union dinosaurs just don't get it. The 1970s and 80's have gone. You can't have them back. The days when British industry was characterised by the tail wagging the dog are gone, and good riddance.


Is there an echo in here?

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 Post subject: Re: Oooppppsss
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:00 pm 
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On lesser wages, well done Unite for shafting your members.

No unite didn't "shaft" their members they were enlightened to the reality of their situation at the end of the day Ineos expects grangemouth to make a healthy profit and are prepared to invest in it as long as the workforce is not going to be so expensive they can't compete on world markets and recover their investment and the workers at grangemouth are on a pretty good deal to start with

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