Taxi Driver Online

just because you are dead and burried does not mean someone cant dig you up and cause more grief, our country has many grave robbers as well as many lawyers

Burke and Hare lol more akin to Edinburgh.

Regards

JD

I wouldnt put anything past that lot.

Its difficult to tell what broke the camels back. The hire plate issue, a lot of bad publicity about lack of wheelchair cabs (about half a dozen in the city) and the 203020 case all came to a head at the same time. So they could sort all three out in one fell swoop, except that the hire plate problem is still around but less widespread.

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Dundee rocks. Almost.

I don't want to get into a protracted debate on the issue, and there's a danger of several related concepts like ethics, morality and fairness being used a bit loosely in what I'm about to say, but in general terms my stance is the following.

In the final analysis the fault lies with govt and the LA.

And I don't really view someone as acting unethically if they sell a plate at a profit, for example, having held it for a number of years.

However, if someone is stealing a march on other people by utilising their superior knowledge of the trade to obtain several plates and selling them on for an immediate profit then there's just something a bit unfair about the whole thing.

It reminds me of the guy on a previous forum who made in pretty clear that he had dumped his plates because of what he had learnt on the forums, and he clearly thought he was taking advantage of the person who bought the plates because the latter clearly didn't know the score - not illegal, but unethical I would say.

Same if a driver agrees an out of town trip at £3 a mile when the going rate is £1.50 - unethical, but not necessarily illegal.

The plate situation is a bit more complex, but in all conscience if the opportunity arose for myself then I wouldn't take it, but if I did then I would do so on the basis that I knew I was wrong

I suspect Skull thinks likewise, which is perhaps why he wouldn't disclose the number of plates he's applied for.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

We've discussed this at length before, but I can't see how the Dundee case was relevant to the time frame of the survey - if a survey had been undertaken a month before the plates were applied for the result would have been the same, as no contemporary information would exist for the applications to be assessed, even if only a month had elapsed since the survey.

The Scottish cases don't seem to regard independent surveys as having any shelf life at all, ie they're past their sell by date as soon as they are on the shelf.

I think the main thing that Dundee added to Coyle was that the decision could be utilised to queue-jump the waiting list.

But I don't think it added much to the substantive law as regards SUD, more a case of substantive lawyers exploiting a loophole to assist those at the back of the queue (or not even in it) to jump to the front.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

It depends what you mean by the 'trade', but I suspect the amount of people in the trade who are aware of the significance of Coyle is miniscule, indeed I suspect the vast majority have never even heard of it.

Thus I suspect that that's why the few who are in the know can exploit the situation to their advantage.

Your statement reminds me of what the OFT said regarding derestriction and those who had paid for a plate - ie the law was that LAs could pull the plug whenever they wanted, so they should know the law, but I think the fact is that most don't have a scooby.

I mean I recall not that long ago a leading public figure in the trade saying that LAs could only derestrict if there was unmet demand. Bollocks, of course, but by the standards of 99% of the trade I think this person could be considered an 'expert'.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Fair comment but I've never got involved in the ethics or otherwise of buying and selling plates only to state that the practice is only possible because of as you rightly say the Government and licensing authorities.

Regards

JD

You clearly think that the Edinburgh legal action might bring the whole thing down, and I don't doubt that you could be correct.

However, if they are forced to issue a couple of dozen plates then this is little more than nuisance value as far as the 'cartel' is concerned, and little changes - all they have to do is beef things up survey wise.

Indeed, given how concillors and councils clearly regard any change of policy as losing face then to that extent they won't give up easily.

But these things never seem to be done on rational grounds, so I won't try to rationalise it any further In the final analysis, it's the murky world of politics.

However, your point about Halcrow being dubious about the practicality of conducting ongoing surveys is interesting, since clearly if it can't be done in Dundee then it can't be done elsewhere.

But, as in England, many LAs will just carry on regardless unless someone at the local level takes action.

TDO doesn't sit on the fence - it's firmly on the derestriction side

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Dundee is very interesting because I believe a lot of thought went into the process of retaining numbers. They explored every option that was available to them in respect of restricting numbers and after doing so they came to the conclusion that the best option was to ditch the policy. I think the number of plates applied for some seventy plus was an overriding factor. They probably thought that if someone can legally obtain that amount of plates through the courts then what's the point of having a restricted policy. That's why I advocate anyone applying for plates in Scotland to fill their boots because it will certainly make a council think twice about the realism of their policy.

Regards

JD

The City of Edinburgh Council vr's 3Maxblack LLP 14/15 July

The City Council have lied and twisted everyway they can, now for the moment of truth.

To the victor the spoils!

Win lose or draw, I will publish the information Edinburgh Council have used in there application for the extended period. I will send you the legal arguments regardless of the outcome.


RealCabforce was right in one respect; I wouldn’t have missed this for the world. You might think I’m mad but let me tell you this, its a lot more fun doing it than talking about it.


I can’t wait!

I know it's a big part, but apart from a few quid you have nothing to lose, so I think you are doing the right thing.

As for the outcome only time will tell, but I have a good feeling in my bones. But whatever happens you have bought a right s*** system, being endorsed by a right s*** council, to the attention of many people who didn't have a clue as to what's going on.

Sad thing is the ones with the most ignorance are the councillors who are meant to form policy.

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IDFIMH

I think we can guess what information Edinburgh will use for their application of an extension. They will try and break new ground in the Scottish courts by stating your application has not been refused merely deferred for a short period of time while the council conducts a survey.

They may try and introduce in-house evidence that there is no sign of unmet demand.

I suspect they will quote English case law extensively so I hope your Brief is knowledgeable in that respect. If Edinburgh do quote English case law then Cameron will certainly play a part. Whatever the outcome I hope the law is clarified to the extent that there is no ambiguity in the decisions made.

Good luck

JD

Indeed GBC, there is a first time for everything.

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IDFIMH

Your almost spot on JD but one of the big problems they have is Jim Inch Director of Corporate Services has been cited as a witness. (Edinburgh Councils Head Man)


This so called Director has a lot of questions to answer the funny thing is he has signed letters that were written on behalf of himself by their legal department but is claiming he never read them. The press is going to have a field day with this, hopefully we will win and the victory will be twice as sweet knowing they were shown up for the incompetent arse holes that they are.


I can't wait.