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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:19 pm 
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JD looking at the amount of posts you have posted on here you are the number 1 keyboard jockey but why if you have nothing to hide have you not put your contact details and why do with hold your number when you phone people :?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:21 pm 
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a class limos wrote:
JD you are wrong if you hire a self drive minibus to go to any event and you pay the driver any amount of money or reward even a meal then he has drove that vehicle for payment code 101 on a licence means he can not drive that vehicle for any sort of payment or reward if he has a full D1 or D1E then he can himself drive that vehicle for payment.


An ex gratia payment to the driver may not constitute a fare: MacLean v Fearn 1954 SLT 37, Sh Ct.

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JD

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:28 pm 
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It would be unwise to confuse contract law with a domestic understanding of mutuality.

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JD

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:30 pm 
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JD so now you are saying that anyone can drive a 16 seater vehicle for payment with code 101 on there licence so if you are right then you have just opened a new so called loophole to let none trained drivers drive these type of vehicles and i thought you were the one that was worried about safety :? Vosa in south wales would not agree with you on that one i think you will find :oops:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:45 pm 
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Humm very interesting debate so far, and personally i can only reiterate what Grandad has said, i too only run 8 seaters and have no intention of going any bigger, however just like grandad i was sceptical at first about all this self drive hire just as you jd and sussex are, fully understandable, however being on our linmo forum and listening to lots of top people within VOSA and other organisations i have come to the conclusion that these people have indeed done what they can wto operate legally within the confines of the crud laws we have in place today!! We all want a better system you me and everybody so why fight and bicker amongst ourselves? Lets fight this together unified and get a proper licensing regime in for 1 and all, then we will all be happy !!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:51 pm 
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a class limos wrote:
Perhaps you should put this forum to good use and help sort out the problem the taxi operators have in Bath with all the Polish drivers being fast tracked through instead of bitching about others :sad:

As far as I'm aware the Polish lads are in this country legally and working legally.

If punters wish to use firms that have drivers who can't speak the lingo or know where they are going, then more fool them.

But if the law is being adhered too, then there's little that can done.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:51 pm 
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a class limos wrote:
JD so now you are saying that anyone can drive a 16 seater vehicle for payment with code 101 on there licence so if you are right then you have just opened a new so called loophole to let none trained drivers drive these type of vehicles and i thought you were the one that was worried about safety :? Vosa in south wales would not agree with you on that one i think you will find :oops:


Your vehicles are not licensed PSV vehicles therefore they are standard vehicles which are not available to be hired for hire or reward. Anyone hiring your vehicle only needs the basic license requirement to drive it. Anyone hiring your vehicle would under such circumstances have already arranged a driver if they can't drive the vehicle themselves. Under such circumstances a one off ex gratia payment agreed by those hiring the vehicle could amount to anything from a gift to compensation for the persons time but what it won't amount to to is a contract to undertake the work of someone who is paid to drive the vehicle under a contract such as a third party person namely a chauffeur.

The informality of the arrangement precludes it from being a contract because the arrangement is not binding and therefore canot be sued in a court of law.

Under an implied contract of hire such as would be the case if a third party driver was hired then a binding contract exists between those who are a party to such a contractual hire. Therefore the hire is being undertaken for hire and reward and that means all applicable licenses and insusrance must be in place.

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:56 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
That said, roughly how many stretch hummers are being used as limos in this country? To the nearest hundred would be fine.

Out of all of those what percentage of them are licensed. Including the schedule 6 mob.

Any offers? :?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:58 pm 
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kermit2482 wrote:
Humm very interesting debate so far, and personally i can only reiterate what Grandad has said, i too only run 8 seaters and have no intention of going any bigger, however just like grandad i was sceptical at first about all this self drive hire just as you jd and sussex are, fully understandable, however being on our linmo forum and listening to lots of top people within VOSA and other organisations i have come to the conclusion that these people have indeed done what they can wto operate legally within the confines of the crud laws we have in place today!! We all want a better system you me and everybody so why fight and bicker amongst ourselves? Lets fight this together unified and get a proper licensing regime in for 1 and all, then we will all be happy !!


Hello is anyone listening :D

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:10 am 
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Sorry JD you are wrong i disagree and kermit nobody will listen to you on here i don't operate taxis but some of my mates do and they all have the same opinon on certain people on here they do more harm than good. They only answer the questions they want to :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:12 am 
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a class limos wrote:
Sorry JD you are wrong i disagree and kermit nobody will listen to you on here i don't operate taxis but some of my mates do and they all have the same opinon on certain people on here they do more harm than good. They only answer the questions they want to :roll:


Wrong in what way?

Am I wrong about your vehicles being unlicensed?

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:17 am 
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Sussex wrote:

But if the law is being adhered too, then there's little that can done.


The best thing you have said on this debate. The law is being adhered to. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:17 am 
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kermit2482 wrote:
kermit2482 wrote:
Humm very interesting debate so far, and personally i can only reiterate what Grandad has said, i too only run 8 seaters and have no intention of going any bigger, however just like grandad i was sceptical at first about all this self drive hire just as you jd and sussex are, fully understandable, however being on our linmo forum and listening to lots of top people within VOSA and other organisations i have come to the conclusion that these people have indeed done what they can wto operate legally within the confines of the crud laws we have in place today!! We all want a better system you me and everybody so why fight and bicker amongst ourselves? Lets fight this together unified and get a proper licensing regime in for 1 and all, then we will all be happy !!


Hello is anyone listening :D
Were you listening when I posted this earlier
gusmac wrote:
JD wrote:
I've always said legislation is needed to accommodate limos because I believe they are not going to go away and they do offer a service. I may not like the traffic jams they cause but if they are licensed then they have a right to trade just like everyone else.


JD you are spot on here. If honest guys need to masquerade as "self drive" or anything else to operate, whether it's legal or not, the system is the problem. The powers that be need to get this sorted as a matter of urgency so these guys know where they stand. The decent guys in the the limo trade will then be able to conduct their business in an open and honest fashion, and the authorities will be able to do something about the cowboys as well. Lets hope someone in power is listening.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:18 am 
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JD wrote:
a class limos wrote:
Sorry JD you are wrong i disagree and kermit nobody will listen to you on here i don't operate taxis but some of my mates do and they all have the same opinon on certain people on here they do more harm than good. They only answer the questions they want to :roll:


Wrong in what way?

Am I wrong about your vehicles being unlicensed?

Regards

JD


Of course the vehicles are unlicensed. You don't license vehicles for self drive hire. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:22 am 
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grandad wrote:
Of course the vehicles are unlicensed. You don't license vehicles for self drive hire. :wink:


Well thats what I was trying to establish. Now it has been established we can move on to the requirements of the driver so I ask the question if the vehicle is not licensed does any driver of the vehicle require a PSV license?

I assume the answer is no.

Regards

JD

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