Taxi Driver Online

This looks an interesting debate ......I,ll try and clear a few misconceptions up for you all.

The self drive insurance policies INSIST the driver has a PSV license!

It would be extremely foolish to allow someone with no experience of large vehicles to operate such machinery! Do you not agree?

The general population of operators within the limo industry actually advocate this very criteria along with CRB checks.

A single licensing system for all limos upto 16 passengers IS being developed as we type, by representatives of the industry and relevant goverment bodies but these things take time.

At a recent meeting i attended with the DFT,VOSA,PCO etc it was disclosed that MORE councils are dropping out of licensing limos than accommodating them because they are getting pressure from the TAXI operators!!

In some places its cheaper to hire a LICENSED 8 seater limo for a trip than to take 2 taxis and this is causing a huge amount of resentment.

So, JD which way do you suggest things should be?

VOSA are looking at licensing limos under their control, will this also cause problems ???

Will TAXI ops complain still?

Ofcourse they will , its the old numbers game!

If you guys on here were as vigilant as you portray then you would be able to tell everyone on here why it is ILLEGAL for any council to license an American limousine.

So who knows the answer?

I hate to answer my own posts but the answer is obviously no, therefore we have established the fact that none of these minibuses are licensed and you don't need a psv driver license to drive one.

So let’s summarise the status of these vehicles.

We have established that the vehicles are adapted minibuses that are not licensed as PSV vehicles, therefore VOSA has no direct control over these vehicles as they would with a PSV vehicle. Therefore any reference to licensed PSV vehicle and licensed PSV driver is totally irrelevant because these vehicles are not in that class.

Under the above circumstances it is therefore established by default that these vehicles and their drivers will not be insured for the purpose of undertaking "hire or reward".

So we have established the three main ingredients of the non licensing status of these and have arrived at the conclusion that these adapted minibuses do not meet the requirements of what is known as PSV licensing. Therefore the vehicles come under the same category as the domestic car sat in your own driveway albeit that they can carry up to sixteen people.

So now we have to look at the activity of those supplying these vehicles and the purpose for which they will legally be used?

We have established that these vehicles cannot be used for hire or reward so we now move on to establishing the meaning of hire and reward and as we all know there is no better case for doing that than Albert v Motor insurers Bureau 1972.

To be continued when I get back.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

It seems strange that an insurance company would advocate a public service vehicle license for a non public service vehicle under a contract of self drive. Do they advocate such a clause for personal use or was the clause instigated by you limo people in order that you can have your own staff drive them?



Perhaps it is extremely foolish to convert a limousine into a minibus on the pretext of self drive hire?

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Not so long ago i took 1 brand new transit minibus and 1 brand new converted 16 seater limousine to VOSA.

Guess which vehicle conformed to the construction and use act and which one did,nt!

You complain that these limos dont comply to anything, so they have a lot of time, money and modifications done to make them comply, next you complain the drivers are,nt licensed correctly so the insurance companies stipulate PSV drivers, you complain they dont have tachos etc , now they do,
Licensing will come but thats not within our control , the authorities are working on it.

So why should an American limousine under present rules be illegal to license Mr JD ?

30,000 unlicensed cabbys on our streets !!!!!!!

Thats 3 times more illegal cabs than their are limos in total !

Does seem a bit like the pot calling the kettle does,nt it?

A minibus is only a VAN which is converted and has little side protection.!!!!

You do know minbuses are not crash tested as they use the data from the original van test!

Limousines are purpose built . Minibuses are not!

S6-15- love..

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

I don't complain about anything, I stated a fact, either the vehicles are licensed or they are not and in your case they are not. That is something you have to accept, regardless of the mechanical condition of your vehicles.

I'm more intrigued about what you said in relation to driver licenses because I can't escape the fact that you lead us to believe one thing and then totally confused us by stating something entirely different.

You said this.



Then several posts later you come up with the information that your insurance policy demands the driver has a PCV license. Why didn’t you say that in the first place?

According to the DVLA website all that is required to drive a minibus of up to 16 passenger seats is a D1 category license. You only need the PCV requirement if you intend to drive passengers for hire or reward. You don’t do hire or reward so why the need for such an insurance clause?

You then go on to say this



I must be honest with you Mr Limo I’ve never read such rubbish in my life. First the vehicle is not a licensed public service vehicle and therefore cannot be driven for hire or reward under any circumstances, second a third party paid driver under a contract to drive cannot take payment for hire or reward unless the vehicle he intends to drive is licensed and insured for the purpose of hire or reward. Third, you being the owner of the "unlicensed" vehicle cannot by law allow it to be used for the purpose of hire or reward.

So what don’t you understand about the illegality of such an idea?

I predict the high court will have a field day with you and your mates.

I suggest you keep reading this website you might learn something about hire or reward? And if there are any representatives from VOSA lurking around out there then you better keep your eyes peeled on what’s coming next.

I would just like to say that describing yourself as self drive hire is absolutely and utterly meaningless. You go into court and describe your business activity and the court will inform you of the exact nature of your business.

If you think the courts are as gullible as some of those people you referred to in the Government agencies, then I would think again.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

You were obviously up to late last night JD you are confusing 2 different posters quotes in your last post.

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Grandad,

As I see it, these guys were told by the government a couple of years ago that there would be no new legislation to cover the use of over 8 seat limousines and to work within the current laws. This they have done. They have not just come up with a loophole, they have been working together with VOSA and the insurance companies. They have not just gone along and said there you are put that in your pipe and smoke it. It has been a long process of asking VOSA what they want and going away and doing it. Asking them what is needed to comply with the law and then meeting those requirements. It is the insurance company that is insisting that the vehicle is only driven by an experienced pcv driver not the vehicle owner. Maybe if the vehicle owners wanted to they could challenge this obsticle in court but in order to satisfy VOSA and the insurance company they have accepted this as a condition.
Maybe, just maybe these guys are being given respect from VOSA because they are prepared to work with VOSA and not try to out do them.
I obviously know who A Class is and I could take a guess at who S6 conversion Specialist is and in the case of the latter, if I am correct he is spending hours every week meeting with the DVLA and VOSA carrying out every little detail that they want doing in order to make sure that the vehicles comply with the law.
These guys have been so succesfull in working with VOSA, the DVLA and the insurance company's that in recent months the government have actually taken note and are now working with these guys to actually get a new form of operation on the statute book. Now that is progress and these guys should be applauded for their fine efforts. How many of us can say that we have influenced a government in a positive way?

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Grandad,

On the Polish lads working in the UK yes, this schedule 6 lark most certainly not yes IMO.

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IDFIMH

Absolutely spot on Grandad and i applaud that post and its contents!!!

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Legal and proud

Loads a love from BERTIE !!

Yes indeed i was paying attention Mr Gusmac, however your only 1 person and i feel a few more ought to take note thats all fella

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Legal and proud

Loads a love from BERTIE !!

See that's the problem.

If two of the good guys can't agree on what they are doing, then the bad guys will be having a field day.

Eventually I got my answer, I think, that these vehicles are un-licensed and the drivers maybe licensed but it doesn't really matter.

I will be interested to see the faces of the magistrates when a schedule 6 chap tells them he really doesn't care who drives his £100,000-200,000 stretch hummer.

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IDFIMH

Well if they seat less than 9 punters it's not illegal.

But if councils don't wish to license these things that's entirely legal.

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IDFIMH

Rest assured the vast majority of taxi/PH folks dislike un-licensed taxi/PH as much as un-licensed limos.

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IDFIMH