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| Drivers Hours ? http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10589 |
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| Author: | brightonbreezy [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Drivers Hours ? |
Question 12 http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 123o02.htm Regards BB |
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| Author: | toots [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:49 am ] |
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Quote: Mr Eric Illsley (Barnsley Central): If he will bring forward legislative proposals on the maximum number of hours that can be worked by taxi drivers.
Is this being pushed by somebody who possibly has an ulterior motive or am I just suspicious 
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:09 pm ] |
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toots wrote: Quote: Mr Eric Illsley (Barnsley Central): If he will bring forward legislative proposals on the maximum number of hours that can be worked by taxi drivers. Is this being pushed by somebody who possibly has an ulterior motive or am I just suspicious :? sort of............ RELATIVES of a South Yorkshire teenager run over by a taxi driver who admitted he had been working 14 hours are pushing forward with their campaign for a change in the law. Truckers and bus drivers are subject to a maximum number of hours and must take breaks but there is no restriction for taxi drivers. The family of 18-year-old Gary Glymond have met with Barnsley Central MP Eric Illsley to discuss how the loophole ADVERTISEMENT could be closed and he now plans to raise the matter with the Government. Gary's stepdad Stuart Jackson, of Wilthorpe, Barnsley, said: "Mr Illsley was very keen and didn't see why something should not be done about this problem. He said it was a matter of common sense and assured us he would get in touch with the Department for Transport. He seemed very confident changes were possible. "I said to him that in these days of health and safety these guys should not be allowed to go out and do what they want, putting people at risk, and he agreed." Mr Illsley said: "I will be talking to the Transport Secretary to see if the issue has been raised before and, if so, the reasons why restrictions have not been implemented. "I would then like to find out the Government's attitude towards whether anything can be done to change things." Gary was killed while walking back to his mum and stepdad's home. The family's campaign for a change in the law to restrict taxi drivers' hours also includes Gary's mum Susan Jackson creating a petition on the 10 Downing Street website. If it attracts more than 200 signatures, they will receive a response on behalf of the Prime Minister. And Gary's stepmum Teresa Glymond has set up a campaign group 'Justice for Gary Glymond' on social networking website Facebook. It has 511 members. Teresa said Gary, a Barnsley College student, had just enjoyed the "best day of his life" after watching Barnsley beat Chelsea at Oakwell in the FA Cup then enjoying drinks with his friends to celebrate his 18th birthday. Gary was hit by private hire driver Lee Sewell's Vauxhall Vectra at about 3.30am on Sunday March 9 last year as he crossed Huddersfield Road. An inquest held in Sheffield heard, Mr Sewell, 26, of Worsbrough, Barnsley, was found by police to have been travelling at more than 40mph. Self-employed Mr Sewell, who worked for the A1 Ace Radio taxi agency, declined to answer questions about his speed. But when Gary's dad Martin Glymond asked how long he had been working, Sewell replied: "Fourteen hours, I started at quarter past one." He added that he had "not seen" the Barnsley College motor vehicle student cross the road into his path. Police said they were unable to take action against Mr Sewell over the hours he had been working because there are no restrictions for taxi drivers. Lorry drivers cannot work more than four-and-a-half hours without a break. And bus drivers are restricted to four-and-a-half hours in one continuous period and a maximum nine-hour working day. - Mr Sewell has been charged with careless driving. He has pleaded not guilty and is due to go on trial at Barnsley Magistrates' Court in spring. |
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| Author: | toots [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:14 pm ] |
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I remember the story just didn't connect the dots..... oh well it's early yet I think another coffee is in order |
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| Author: | bloodnock [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:52 pm ] |
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How about PH....how would they know how many hours were worked?? are the gonna stick Tachos in all the cars?? If they do that would Fech up the end of any personal usage of the vehicle. One Guy gets sadly killed by an Throttle loving and Manic Taxi driver....the whole trade suffers....yet Police drivers cause many more deaths and Bugger all happens to them... |
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:00 pm ] |
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its not just taxis/PH, anyone driving commercially (fo hire+reward or PAYE) is subjetc to the driver hours too, and taxi/PH drivers arent the only ones who dont seem tor ealise it. Quote: Did you know that if you drive a goods vehicle that is three and a half tonnes or less, then you are covered by GB Domestic rules ? and that means you can only drive for a maximum of 10 hours, and can only work for a maximum of 11 Hours. With so many VOSA out there, be careful if you are stoped, hide your work/time sheets and say nothing. good luck. Quote: If you started and got fuel at 5 am in Newcastle, drove to Bristol only stopping to refuel at 10 am, delivered in Bristol with a POD with 11 am on it, turned around and ate your sarnies on way back, stop at Woodall Services to refuel again at 4 pm grabbed a coffee and continue but just as you pass the Metro Centre at 6 pm 30 mins from home you crash into someone, they are at fault but they are killed
You also worked the day before, a delivery to Tilbury and got fuel at Cambridge Services at 6 pm and drove back to Newcastle getting to bed at about 12 midnight. You have all your fuel receipts in your wallet, dates and times on. Do you think that the Police, VOSA and insurance companies will just say never mind it was not your fault, on your merry way ? |
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:06 pm ] |
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it wouldnt take much of an amendment to squeeze in the words "Taxi" or "Private Hire" would it......... 95 Vehicles and drivers subject to control under Part VI (1)This Part of this Act shall have effect with a view to securing the observance of proper hours [F1or periods] of work by persons engaged in the carriage of passengers or goods by road and thereby protecting the public against the risks which arise in cases where the drivers of motor vehicles are suffering from fatigue. [F2but the Secretary of State may by regulations make such provision by way of substitution for or adaptation of the provisions of this Part, or supplemental or incidental to this Part, as he considers necessary or expedient to take account of the operation of any relevant Community provision. (1A)Regulations under subsection (1) above may in particular— (a)substitute different requirements for the requirements of the domestic drivers’ hours code or add to, make exceptions from or otherwise modify any of the requirements of that code; (b)apply to journeys and work to which no relevant Community provision applies; (c)include provision as to the circumstances in which a period of driving or duty to which a relevant Community provision or the domestic drivers’ hours code applies is to be included or excluded in reckoning any period for purposes of the domestic drivers’ hours code or any relevant Community provision respectively; and (d)may contain such transitional, supplemental or consequential provisions as the Secretary of State thinks necessary or expedient] (2)This Part of this Act applies to— (a)passenger vehicles, that is to say— (i)public service vehicles; and (ii)motor vehicles (other than public service vehicles) constructed or adapted to carry more than twelve passengers; (b)goods vehicles, that is to say— (i)heavy locomotives, light locomotives, motor tractors and any motor vehicle so constructed that a trailer may by partial superimposition be attached to the vehicle in such a manner as to cause a substantial part of the weight of the trailer to be borne by the vehicle; and (ii)motor vehicles (except those mentioned in paragraph (a) of this subsection) constructed or adapted to carry goods other than the effects of passengers. [F3(c)vehicles not falling within paragraph (a) or (b) of this subsection which— (i)are vehicles within the meaning given by Article 1 of Council Regulation (EEC) No. 3820/85 of 29th December 1985 on the harmonization of certain social legislation relating to road transport; and (ii)are not referred to in Article 4 of that Regulation.] (3)This Part of this Act applies to any such person as follows (in this Part of this Act referred to as “a driver”), that is to say— (a)a person who drives a vehicle to which this Part of this Act applies in the course of his employment (in this Part of this Act referred to as “an employee-driver”); and (b)a person who drives such a vehicle for the purposes of a trade or business carried on by him (in this Part of this Act referred to as “an owner-driver”); |
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| Author: | bloodnock [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:29 pm ] |
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Quote: it wouldnt take much of an amendment to squeeze in the words "Taxi" or "Private Hire" would it.........
It wouldnt take much of an Amendment to Squeeze the Word "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" but just because they could it does'nt mean they will. The bit that gets me under the EU work directive of 48 hours. of those 48 allowable working hours what would happen if say 30 of them were spent sitting at a rank or on call and only 18 hours were actual fair earning Driving hours, no one has as yet explained what its to be based on...Driving times or working times. its a fickle job taxiing, its not as if all the time your present at work your actually working, if your only doing 18 hours driving say out of 48 hours of paid work the job would never pay. another thing I cant get my head round is what happens if your self employed...do you only actually take into account the Time your driving and bury all the other time taken for paperwork and car cleaning etc by saying its done in your spare time thus delivering you up a full 48 hours of driving time ..or does it simply not apply to the self employed owner driver. if your not an employee it means you could drive enough hours to make it pay, so wouldnt it be wise to never employe anyone but to take drivers on that are registered as employed which allows you to circumvent all the rules. we seem to be getting Two things confused..Working hours and driving hours..is it the EU's 48 work hour directive or the posssible future rule that Dictates how many hours a Taxi/ PHdriver should drive in a day. if its a combination of both rules the jobs completely unworkable. If they take things to far it'll Kill the trade stone dead in rural areas and in many poorer Built up areas..only the Big boys will have the resources to maintain a fleet of drivers and service them with enough work on their driving shift to pay a drivers wages..mininum wages at that. I know im not the sharpest Knife in the Drawer but i cant seem to find answers to these questions....besides how they going to police the whole damn thing, My wife helps me out and she has a 40 hour a week job over and above the Driving she does so whos to know whos driving what at any given time. If it gets much worse me and tens of thousands like me will have the pleasure of spending all of the EU 48 rule on the Dole.. 
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:46 pm ] |
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dont confuse Driver Hours with the WTD, even they can clash, and both apply to s/employed (or the WTD will soon) when working as a multidrop driver in a 7.5tonner i used a stopwatch for hours driven and drops longer than 15 minutes to make up the required 45 minute break, that loophole has now gone. drive on a chart 1 day and work in the warehouse/drive a non-tacho van the next and you should make out a chart, how that works with the new digital cards i dont know |
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| Author: | toots [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: The bit that gets me under the EU work directive of 48 hours. of those 48 allowable working hours what would happen if say 30 of them were spent sitting at a rank or on call and only 18 hours were actual fair earning Driving hours
Whilst I can see your point and agree with you entirely, how tired do you get when you sitting there doing nothing. I find the least I do the more tired I get through boredom if nothing else. I don't know how it is going to work or not work for that matter but I'm sure we'll all find out if it ever goes through 
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| Author: | bloodnock [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:26 am ] |
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toots wrote: Quote: The bit that gets me under the EU work directive of 48 hours. of those 48 allowable working hours what would happen if say 30 of them were spent sitting at a rank or on call and only 18 hours were actual fair earning Driving hours Whilst I can see your point and agree with you entirely, how tired do you get when you sitting there doing nothing. I find the least I do the more tired I get through boredom if nothing else. I don't know how it is going to work or not work for that matter but I'm sure we'll all find out if it ever goes through what the hell...I'l do two 24 hour shifts back to back at the weekend..after 48 hours in one go I'l head off home and sleep the other 5 days....the School kids on my council run can walk to school. the other option is that we all scrape together £120,000 pounds and try and buy off an Honest labour Peer who can bend the rules to change an amendment which will see us working 25 hours per day without the government noticing... |
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| Author: | grandad [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:18 am ] |
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bloodnock wrote: toots wrote: Quote: The bit that gets me under the EU work directive of 48 hours. of those 48 allowable working hours what would happen if say 30 of them were spent sitting at a rank or on call and only 18 hours were actual fair earning Driving hours Whilst I can see your point and agree with you entirely, how tired do you get when you sitting there doing nothing. I find the least I do the more tired I get through boredom if nothing else. I don't know how it is going to work or not work for that matter but I'm sure we'll all find out if it ever goes through what the hell...I'l do two 24 hour shifts back to back at the weekend..after 48 hours in one go I'l head off home and sleep the other 5 days....the School kids on my council run can walk to school. the other option is that we all scrape together £120,000 pounds and try and buy off an Honest labour Peer who can bend the rules to change an amendment which will see us working 25 hours per day without the government noticing... One will do it for £25,000. 
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| Author: | bloodnock [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:15 pm ] |
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grandad wrote: bloodnock wrote: toots wrote: Quote: The bit that gets me under the EU work directive of 48 hours. of those 48 allowable working hours what would happen if say 30 of them were spent sitting at a rank or on call and only 18 hours were actual fair earning Driving hours Whilst I can see your point and agree with you entirely, how tired do you get when you sitting there doing nothing. I find the least I do the more tired I get through boredom if nothing else. I don't know how it is going to work or not work for that matter but I'm sure we'll all find out if it ever goes through what the hell...I'l do two 24 hour shifts back to back at the weekend..after 48 hours in one go I'l head off home and sleep the other 5 days....the School kids on my council run can walk to school. the other option is that we all scrape together £120,000 pounds and try and buy off an Honest labour Peer who can bend the rules to change an amendment which will see us working 25 hours per day without the government noticing... One will do it for £25,000. That would be LORD DISCOUNT OF DUNFIDDLING...very nice chap...he even apologises for no reason at all... |
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| Author: | Bart [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:35 pm ] |
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A reduction in drivers hours may not be a bad thing. Say a city has 100 drivers working 60 hours per week and they cover 6000 jobs a week between them. that works out at 100 jobs each reducing the hours each driver can work is not going to have any effect on demand so if the drivers can now only work 40 hours each they will end up earning the same money for less hours. |
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| Author: | toots [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:45 pm ] |
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Bart wrote: A reduction in drivers hours may not be a bad thing.
Say a city has 100 drivers working 60 hours per week and they cover 6000 jobs a week between them. that works out at 100 jobs each reducing the hours each driver can work is not going to have any effect on demand so if the drivers can now only work 40 hours each they will end up earning the same money for less hours. How so, I'm confused and I know it doesn't take a lot but if I normally did 100 jobs in 60 hours how will I manage to do 100 jobs in 40 hours
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