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York City Council / The Thinker 0 Common Sense / Tom 1
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Author:  loppylugs [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  York City Council / The Thinker 0 Common Sense / Tom 1
Oh dear, what a Black day for the City of York Council and The Thinker, or not as the cab maybe.
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: York City Council / The Thinker 0 Common Sense / Tom 1
loppylugs wrote:
Oh dear, what a Black day for the City of York Council and The Thinker, or not as the cab maybe.

Would you care to elaborate? :?
Author:  agabbycabbie [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Browne 1 Black 0
http://www.thepress.co.uk/news/4182701.Council_left_feeling_blue_after_black_cabs_plan_is_opposed_by_driver_called_Browne/
Author:  captain cab [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
He won the right to keep his W reg VW Caravelle red, but the council won the right to restrict the age of taxis, in a bid to reduce pollution levels in the city.


So the condition applied to new licenses and newly licensed vehicles doesn't change?

I wonder about the term landmark, because similar happened in Stockport and in Durham.

CC
Author:  captain cab [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Council left feeling blue after black cabs plan is opposed by driver called Browne

PLANS to turn York’s taxi fleet black were in ruins today after a cabbie won a potentially landmark case.

Tom Browne appealed against the city council’s licensing conditions that force all cabs to be painted in identical colours and be less than eight years old.

He won the right to keep his W reg VW Caravelle red, but the council won the right to restrict the age of taxis, in a bid to reduce pollution levels in the city.

“It’s a fair decision,” Mr Browne said about the cab colour judgement.

“I think it was a ridiculous condition in the first place. It was nothing to do with safety. At least 80 per cent of the drivers are of the same opinion.”

District Judge Andrew Pascoe’s judgement means the council could face other legal challenges if it enforced the condition against other taxi drivers.

He rejected Mr Browne’s claims that the council’s taxi licensing boss, Dick Haswell, and council licensing manager John Lacy had threatened York Taxi Association with deregulation if members did not support the new licensing conditions.

“I can find no evidence to substantiate the allegation. I consider it an unwarranted attack on two public servants which is without foundation,” he said.

During a day-long trial, he heard from several taxi drivers, including Mr Browne, and the two council officers. The council had hoped all taxis could be painted black so that they could be easily distinguished in the street. A council spokesman said: “We welcome the advice of the district judge. The council will now be taking legal advice and reviewing its policy in relation to black hackney carriages.”

Mr Browne has yet to decide whether he will continue his fight against the eight-year rule.

Under that condition, the council refuses to allow any vehicle over four years old to become a taxi and forces drivers to change their vehicle when it reaches eight years old in a bid to cut down on pollution in York.

He brought the case solely on his own behalf, a battle that began in June 2008. He said: “It’s a point of principle.”
Author:  Stationtone [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think that this should be a lesson to everyone to stand up for what you believing and don't let councils walk all over you.After all they are suppose to represent the people. =D> =D>
Author:  JD [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain cab wrote:
He rejected Mr Browne’s claims that the council’s taxi licensing boss, Dick Haswell, and council licensing manager John Lacy had threatened York Taxi Association with deregulation if members did not support the new licensing conditions.

“I can find no evidence to substantiate the allegation. I consider it an unwarranted attack on two public servants which is without foundation,” he said.


Congratulations Mr Browne, he did what no one else in York was prepared to do and won, quite remarkable.

One lesson he has learnt is that you don't make accusations in a court of law unless you can back them up with fact, unfounded allegations can sometimes turn the bench against you.

All the same he did well considering he was seemingly alone in this action from start to finish.

Regards

JD
Author:  skippy41 [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
So they wont even alow a WAV over 8 years old????????
Author:  captain cab [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
JD wrote:
All the same he did well considering he was seemingly alone in this action from start to finish.


I understand he was represents by a solicitor and a certain body based in Bury did give advice?

regards

CC
Author:  JD [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain cab wrote:


I understand he was represents by a solicitor


That was my understanding as well but it was also my understanding that he navigated through these proceedings without any or very little financial assistance from anyone? Would that be correct?

Quote:
and a certain body based in Bury did give advice?


I'm glad he got advice from somewhere because according to the bench at the first hearing he needed it.

Regards

JD
Author:  captain cab [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
JD wrote:

That was my understanding as well but it was also my understanding that he navigated through these proceedings without any or very little financial assistance from anyone? Would that be correct?

I'm glad he got advice from somewhere because according to the bench at the first hearing he needed it.

Regards

JD


I think he's paid for it himself....and being in front of a district judge he'll still have to pay his own costs?

I understand he had gathered a lot of information and virtually everything he needed by himself....however it wasn't in any order and he was assisted with that.

Congratulations to the guy really.

However, there are a number of questions.

1, Will the judgement only apply to him? taking the liberty of answering the question myself I suspect the answer is yes.

2, Will York council insist on the colour policy on newly licensed vehicles?

Answering that one, I'd say possibly....and if that's the case, and considering the age limit, I'd say Mr Browne might have to think about another vehicle in Black in the near future?

regards

CC
Author:  JD [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain cab wrote:
I think he's paid for it himself....and being in front of a district judge he'll still have to pay his costs?

I understand he had gathered a lot of information and virtually everything he needed by himself....however it wasn't in any order and he was assisted with that.

Congratulations to the guy really.

However, there are a number of questions.

1, Will the judgement only apply to him? taking the liberty of answering the question myself I suspect the answer is yes.


It was an appeal against the condition and it will only apply to him but I suspect the council will remove it. They won't want to spend anymore money on court cases just because of a colour code. The judges comments will naturally have a bearing on the issue but I fully expect the council to reverse the condition.

The ratio of wins to losses in these colour code cases is growing in favour of the taxi trade so perhaps councils should think long and hard about such conditions in the future.

Quote:
2, Will York council insist on the colour policy on newly licensed vehicles?


Doubtful but you never know?

Regards

JD
Author:  the thinker [ Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
JD wrote:
captain cab wrote:
I think he's paid for it himself....and being in front of a district judge he'll still have to pay his costs?

I understand he had gathered a lot of information and virtually everything he needed by himself....however it wasn't in any order and he was assisted with that.

Congratulations to the guy really.

However, there are a number of questions.

1, Will the judgement only apply to him? taking the liberty of answering the question myself I suspect the answer is yes.


It was an appeal against the condition and it will only apply to him but I suspect the council will remove it. They won't want to spend anymore money on court cases just because of a colour code. The judges comments will naturally have a bearing on the issue but I fully expect the council to reverse the condition.

The ratio of wins to losses in these colour code cases is growing in favour of the taxi trade so perhaps councils should think long and hard about such conditions in the future.

Quote:
2, Will York council insist on the colour policy on newly licensed vehicles?


Doubtful but you never know?

Regards

JD

So does that mean then that a City like Leeds which has all black and white hackneys could now be challenged?
Author:  captain cab [ Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
the thinker wrote:
So does that mean then that a City like Leeds which has all black and white hackneys could now be challenged?


No :wink:

It would appear the issue is with the instigation of the policy.

For my two penneth the council policy should have been seen as reasonable.

If they have an age policy....why not make the colour policy part of the 'upon replacement' aspect....thus allowing vehicles to continue in whatever colour till they need replaced.

That aside....if what the council are saying is that they need the colour policy to be part of a public recognition thing.....to educate the public between the differences between HC and PH.....then they need proof this is a reasonable conclusion to reach.

A five year old could make the public reach that conclusion. :wink:

CC
Author:  JD [ Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
the thinker wrote:
So does that mean then that a City like Leeds which has all black and white hackneys could now be challenged?


Any condition can be challenged but each case rests on its own merits. I thought that was widely understood.

Regards

JD
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