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I Hope The Powers Are Happy
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Author:  Doom [ Fri May 08, 2009 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  I Hope The Powers Are Happy
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/portsmouth/ ... 5239543.jp


This has since become a death as the lad died in hospital yesterday, sadly it seems the offender's are Royal Marines, and I mean sadly as I deal with them alot and I like the guy's, anyway moving on to my real point.

There's been a mission to rid clubs of the traditional bouncer over the last few years and replace him with a more ask you to leave politely type, some old school remain but they are in their last throes of the game, this lads death should never have happened, I'm getting mixed reports as to if it happened inside or outside the club, but I believe it was inside and when this happens you see it instantly as ppl move to get out of the way and that's why I believe this inncident wasn't addressed asap (I could be wrong btw) some 18 mths ago I helped out splitting a fight in a different club because all the staff were tied up removing another fight, my reward was to get banned for nearly a year, and it was only lifted after I pricked someones concience about future backup if they got into trouble, I was down that area that night but arrived after it had all happened and got rumour of it a few times from staff at the club I was in, had I been there two thoughts would've crossed my mind, do I risk another ban to help out or do I stand and watch which is what most ppl did by the sound of it, I know the answer tbh, 2 onto 1 isn't fair and I would've been in there to break it up, it's time ppl grew some balls, a bouncer mate of mine lost his badge some years ago because he was too rough on the client's, what he actually was was the perfect deterent as when he worked this bar within months trouble disappeared, now he's gone it's something every week again.


And I still can't get over on the fact that two RM's gang fought one lad, one RM should've been able deal with it on his own, until the full facts are known I guess I won't know for sure what happened and how it happened, but one thing for sure, if you are gonna fight, do it one to one, anything else doesn't count, just makes you look like you didn't have enough gas for the journey imo.
Author:  Nigel [ Fri May 08, 2009 5:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
The trouble with the Marines is they think they are hard as nails in or out of uniform. Leave the fighting to the battlefield not the local pubs.
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Fri May 08, 2009 6:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
You cant train a dog to kill then expect it to be a pussycat can you...

a few pints, and your highly trained marine becomes rambo
Author:  jimbo [ Fri May 08, 2009 7:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
As the father of an ex Royal Marine, and an ex naval rating myself, I resent the above posts, which are in my view sweeping statements made without any knowledge of whatever may have happened. Lets leave it to the police, and maybe the courts to decide?
Author:  Doom [ Sat May 09, 2009 3:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
jimbo wrote:
As the father of an ex Royal Marine, and an ex naval rating myself, I resent the above posts, which are in my view sweeping statements made without any knowledge of whatever may have happened. Lets leave it to the police, and maybe the courts to decide?



I'll agree with that, they are trained to do a job and they do play hard when out and about, but in 23 yrs of dealing with them this is the 1st time I've heard of an incident like this involving them and overall they are generally a good laugh to have in the car.

Hence my disappointment at the disgrace it brings to the Marines as a whole.
Author:  cabbyman [ Sat May 09, 2009 7:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
In my experience, it is generally the civvies who start the trouble in our area and the navy lads walk away, if at all possible.
Author:  Doom [ Sun May 10, 2009 3:02 am ]
Post subject: 
This case was 2 marines against one RN sailor from one of the Carriers iirc, one was charged with murder yesterday (fri) and the other today, the story I've heard is they kicked him around like a football once he hit the floor, both are early 20's so that's their lives wasted for the sake of a beer ruck as well.

Anyway, the purpose of the thread isn't to bash the Marine Corps, it's to highlight the failings of the club policy on door staff selection, in the paper website the story is it happened outside the club, the stories I've heard is it happened inside, but regardless where it happened it happened and it shouldn't have, because inside they have at least 5 staff patrolling, and outside there wouldv'e been a mix of at least 5 more door staff between the three venue's open that night where it happened, this couldn't happen like it did unless someone turned the other way when they should've been in there breaking it up.
Author:  Doom [ Tue May 12, 2009 11:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Update

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/portsmouth/ ... 5252262.jp


More BS in it as well, see the part where it says police patrol it, maybe on Friday and Saturday, but there's never one to be seen on a Tuesday, as you will read they've now admitted it was in the club so it really should've been delt with before it got that far, the girl on the door has more bottle than most of the male staff in there, it's what happens when you think by going almost student only they are easy to push around, but the reality is you need a flame to fight fire with, better to have a proper hard [edited by admin] as a deterrent imo.
Author:  toots [ Tue May 12, 2009 11:52 am ]
Post subject: 
I believe the policy here is if there is trouble inside the doormen get them outside then leave it to the pollice. I'm not much of a fan of doormen cos whilst I apreciate they can have difficult job sometimes they make matters worse and they always appear to be a little above themselves
Author:  grandad [ Tue May 12, 2009 3:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:
I believe the policy here is if there is trouble inside the doormen get them outside then leave it to the pollice. I'm not much of a fan of doormen cos whilst I apreciate they can have difficult job sometimes they make matters worse and they always appear to be a little above themselves


This is true for a lot of them, especially in my town. However I was once at ISIS in Nottingham and there were some truly proffesional doormen. I just don't know how they kept their cool under the provocation they were getting.
Author:  rambo [ Tue May 12, 2009 7:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
I did the job for about 5 yrs full time before I became PHV, TBH, the old school bouncers were nothing but a headache, they caused more problems by being so aggresive with people.

If you tell some lads they can't come in and they call you a w*nker, is there any need to have a fight with them?

The reason doorstaff will not get involved with fights outside the premisies is normally company policy and insurance.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

The whole things sad, the booties lives are ruined and the family of the dead guy will never get over it.
Author:  Doom [ Wed May 13, 2009 1:35 am ]
Post subject: 
rambo wrote:
I did the job for about 5 yrs full time before I became PHV, TBH, the old school bouncers were nothing but a headache, they caused more problems by being so aggresive with people.

If you tell some lads they can't come in and they call you a w*nker, is there any need to have a fight with them?

The reason doorstaff will not get involved with fights outside the premisies is normally company policy and insurance.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

The whole things sad, the booties lives are ruined and the family of the dead guy will never get over it.



Spot on mate, but the new ones are equally as bad, I had to tell one the other week after he'd ejected what I didn't consider to be too drunk or a threat, he had to insist on winding the guy up even though he was going by waving at him and shouting goodnight, this isn't good dooring imo, a doorman isn't there to get into a fight, he's there to restrain and remove.


This case is sad in the respect that it's themed a student night and the fact that when it kicked off all those around the scene had a quick lesson in it wasn't some chatroom where insults and keyboard warriorship could be played, more so oh sh*t there's a real world fight get me outaa here.


Sad thing is I'm normally in that bar and if I'd seen it I would've gone to his aid and he'd probably be alive today, as it was I was late and heading elsewhere, what I fail to grasp is how he got kicked in so bad inside the club.


And to finish, what you said earlier about thug doormen wanting to fight, they are as bad as doormen wgho want to shave their heads and wear a black coat and impress silly little girls, but when the gloves come off many ppl get found out, what's needed is a hardnut doorman who removes ppl rather than seeing them as practice, maybe I should start a school up as I once considered the door, but it wasn't kiddy night club, it was a club where a Scouce shooter crew drank, but get this not once did they play up, they had their agenda and it was left outside once the glass was filling up, I declined it due to the offer, £10 a night a free cab and as much beer as I could drink, not ideal, and the offer came because I saved a guy getting a bottle in the face and ejected the bloke, PC world doesn't work, you have to have deterrant's, nothing else works, try smashing the nose in of someone who robbed your house, you won't get good odds on him returning for a 2nd look, this is how it is, we are animals and you have to be more of an animal than the one ruining things to set it straight.
Author:  toots [ Wed May 13, 2009 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
charged with murder


There must be more to this than meets the eye if a charge of murder has been brought, unless of course they have also tagged on the manslaughter charge. For a murder charge to be successful I would think they have to prove intent to commit murder, that being the real difference between the two charges.

If somebody starts fighting unless you intended to kill the person you attacked then you couldn't really be charged with murder. This is a drink related incident and IMO any good solicitor would use that in mitigating circumstances, not that I agree with that course of action, in fact I believe you should be just as accountable drunk as sober.

The saddest part of all this is the lives that have been ruined by it. It's a shame that the doormen who are employed here didn't do their job. They should seperated these people and kept them seperated instead they did nothing or very little to save that lads life. I would like to think there would be some comeback for their neglect of duty but there won't be nor will the club face any neglect charges for not providing door staff that can actually do their job. It isn't the first sad case nor will it be the last and that is the saddest thing of all, no wonder people don't want to go out anymore.
Author:  Doom [ Sat May 16, 2009 2:31 am ]
Post subject: 
It's a sh*thole here Toots, a total ghetto of a city now, I've had an early bath tonight because a chav decided to damage my car, I got out to chase him but as he ran away his mates decided they wanted to play football with me, my punters wanted to help me out but I told them to stay put as they had their wives with them and I think coke was bigging the chav gang up, I couldn't bear it if any of us ended up with a knife in us, especially the fare, many ppl are unaware of what is living around them these days and the danger they can easily become tangled in, I have my own methods of setting it straight, so you can rest assured it will be addressed at the right time later, so sad how things change, I heard an interesting one the other night, the safest city in the world is now supposed to be New York, and also the UK is now on par with the New York of the 70's, I'm not really one for statistics but I think it's probably very near the truth.
Author:  toots [ Sat May 16, 2009 2:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Twice in one night I'm agreeing with you doom :shock: I don't feel as safe doing this job now as when I first started. I know the support of the lads on the system will always be there but I think the threat of knife violence is always in my mind, especially working this town, they're dead heads. There isn't one night when I work that somebody doesn't mention knives and I usually come across at least one carrying one. I used to be able to have a laugh with everybody but now cos they're all coked up it's difficult to know who isn't going to kick off just cos they think you mean something that you didn't when you're chatting with them. I'm always glad to get home to the safety of my bed and my duck so I can bury my head under my duvet. Oh well such is life :D
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