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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:53 am 
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End Of The Black Cab?

Fri, 24 July 2009

For decades, London's black cabs have been as much an emblem of the city as Buckingham Palace or Big Ben — but now their drivers fear the industry is under threat.

The problem, they say, is minicabs — ordinary-looking cars licensed to take advance bookings over the telephone or the Internet, while traditional black cabs pick up customers who hail them on the street.

With the recession already hurting business, frustrations have come to a head over proposals by airport authorities to let some minicabs take bookings from passengers arriving at Heathrow.

Black cabbies say this would damage their trade and highlights a wider problem of minicabs encroaching on their turf, particularly in the buzzing West End entertainment district.

"What to do about minicab drivers? I could tell you, but it might be a bit medieval. Burning, tarring, public execution," said one black cab driver, stopping for an afternoon cup of tea at one of London's 19th-century cabmen's shelters near the River Thames.

He took part in a protest in February when black cab drivers blocked Trafalgar Square and says "the same thing will happen again and again and again" if the authorities do not help black cabs.

"We think we're going to go the way of the Routemaster buses and red telephone boxes," said another driver, referring to two other London icons which are now largely obsolete.

Both cabbies asked not to be named, with one citing fear of reprisals from rival drivers.

They don't have 'The Knowledge'

But minicab firms hit back, saying black cabs are increasingly outdated, while new technology like satellite navigation systems — known as sat navs — means minicabs can do a similar job more cheaply and with minimal training.

"The taxi trade's got to be careful because if they don't move on, they will die," said John Griffin, founder and chairman of Addison Lee, London's biggest minicab firm, which could operate at Heathrow if the plan goes through.

He says black cabs could learn lessons from his firm, which is proud of hi-tech innovations like a multi-million pound booking system which sends customers text messages automatically when their car is on its way and arrives.

London's black cabs were voted the best in the world in a recent survey and much of their reputation rests on their drivers' navigational expertise.

"Something's going to give"

All black cabbies must pass "the knowledge", a test of their familiarity with city streets which typically requires several years' study.

But now, advances in sat nav mean that minicab drivers who do not have "the knowledge" can get directions and traffic information simply by pressing a few buttons.

This means minicabs — which were only licensed in London in 2002 and are thought to number around 50 000, compared to roughly half that for black cabs — are increasingly competitive.

This shows on any Friday or Saturday night in the West End as revellers spill out of bars, restaurants and clubs late at night when most public transport is closed.

While many people try to hail black cabs off the street, others reserve a minicab through a cab firm employee stationed within a venue and step right into a vehicle parked outside.

Black cabbies say this legal practice is hitting their trade and claim some minicabs are going further by illegally picking up customers who hail them on the street.

"We've got hoards of private hire vehicles on the streets, touting for business with no enforcement and, to be honest, it will be the demise of the world famous London taxi service," said Grant Davis, chairman of the London Cab Drivers' Club, which represents around 1500 London black cabbies.

"With the recession, cabbies have become more militant.

"Private hire work has diminished and the only work they can go for is us, so they go out on the street."

Insiders talk of skirmishes between black cabbies and minicab drivers, while some black cabbies have taken to posting online photographs of rivals they accuse of illegal touting.

Davis warns his members are worried about the Heathrow plans and could be ready to take direct action to secure their livelihoods.

"Something's going to give. We had the demo in February and I believe, speaking to my members, if nothing's done pretty soon, then (that) is going to be repeated on maybe a daily basis," he said.

Transport for London, the body responsible for the British capital's public transport system, did not respond to a request for comment. Minicab firms, though, tell another side of the story.

Steve Wright of the Licensed Private Hire Car Association (LPHCA), which represents minicabs, said most illegal touts were not licensed minicab drivers but acknowledged more needed to be done to tackle the issue.

He too suggested black cabs need to move with the times.

"I think that many will smile in 20 years' time when you tell them that once, not so long ago, you had to go out in the street and hope a taxi was passing by with an orange light on," he said.

"Real time tracking and booking systems will replace this game of chance and you won't have to go outside in hope."

Source; iafrica.com

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Quote:
Steve Wright of the Licensed Private Hire Car Association (LPHCA), which represents minicabs, said most illegal touts were not licensed minicab drivers but acknowledged more needed to be done to tackle the issue.

He too suggested black cabs need to move with the times.

"I think that many will smile in 20 years' time when you tell them that once, not so long ago, you had to go out in the street and hope a taxi was passing by with an orange light on," he said.



well said that man...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:50 pm 
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If London's finest could get the turning circle removed they could get much more modern economical vehicles and hit back.

I can see the PH point of view about sat nav taking over, you can now get one where you just tell it where you want to go for around £250.
But I would make it a requirement for vehicles to be of a certain size and colour and have a maximum age policy of 6 years on vehicles


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:57 pm 
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skippy41 wrote:
If London's finest could get the turning circle removed they could get much more modern economical vehicles and hit back.

I can see the PH point of view about sat nav taking over, you can now get one where you just tell it where you want to go for around £250.
But I would make it a requirement for vehicles to be of a certain size and colour and have a maximum age policy of 6 years on vehicles


Is that what the requirement is where you are Skip?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:04 pm 
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toots wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
If London's finest could get the turning circle removed they could get much more modern economical vehicles and hit back.

I can see the PH point of view about sat nav taking over, you can now get one where you just tell it where you want to go for around £250.
But I would make it a requirement for vehicles to be of a certain size and colour and have a maximum age policy of 6 years on vehicles


Is that what the requirement is where you are Skip?


None other than a 7 year age limit and the vehicle must have an engine of 1.4 or above


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:15 pm 
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skippy41 wrote:
toots wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
If London's finest could get the turning circle removed they could get much more modern economical vehicles and hit back.

I can see the PH point of view about sat nav taking over, you can now get one where you just tell it where you want to go for around £250.
But I would make it a requirement for vehicles to be of a certain size and colour and have a maximum age policy of 6 years on vehicles


Is that what the requirement is where you are Skip?


None other than a 7 year age limit and the vehicle must have an engine of 1.4 or above


So tell me why anywhere else should be any different? Perhaps you'd like a more stringent licencing policy :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:38 pm 
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toots wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
toots wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
If London's finest could get the turning circle removed they could get much more modern economical vehicles and hit back.

I can see the PH point of view about sat nav taking over, you can now get one where you just tell it where you want to go for around £250.
But I would make it a requirement for vehicles to be of a certain size and colour and have a maximum age policy of 6 years on vehicles


Is that what the requirement is where you are Skip?


None other than a 7 year age limit and the vehicle must have an engine of 1.4 or above


So tell me why anywhere else should be any different? Perhaps you'd like a more stringent licencing policy :shock:


Toots thats for the hack and PH as long as the vehicle has 4 doors and is big enough to take luggage has a 1.4 engine or above anything goes.

In London every tom dick or harry is a mini cab driver and uses anything even with 2 doors in some cases.
Some are not even PH as some owners of posh sports cars and 4 x4s have used a loop hole to avoid paying the congestion charge by registering them as PH to get around it.
The PH requirement down there needs addressing perhaps a colour code??
They could start with trying to educate the public as to what mini cabs should look like and what to look for on the vehicle and to check the drivers ID out before they enter


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:44 pm 
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http://www.tomtom.com/products/category ... Language=1

Any of the first 3 are spot on

You could even chat up Tim Toots and get an answear :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:14 pm 
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skippy41 wrote:
http://www.tomtom.com/products/category.php?ID=0&Language=1

Any of the first 3 are spot on

You could even chat up Tim Toots and get an answear :lol:


I already have somebody to talk to with my smartnav. He's kept in the glove box and I just press a button to speak to him :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:17 pm 
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skippy41 wrote:
toots wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
toots wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
If London's finest could get the turning circle removed they could get much more modern economical vehicles and hit back.

I can see the PH point of view about sat nav taking over, you can now get one where you just tell it where you want to go for around £250.
But I would make it a requirement for vehicles to be of a certain size and colour and have a maximum age policy of 6 years on vehicles


Is that what the requirement is where you are Skip?


None other than a 7 year age limit and the vehicle must have an engine of 1.4 or above


So tell me why anywhere else should be any different? Perhaps you'd like a more stringent licencing policy :shock:


Toots thats for the hack and PH as long as the vehicle has 4 doors and is big enough to take luggage has a 1.4 engine or above anything goes.

In London every tom dick or harry is a mini cab driver and uses anything even with 2 doors in some cases.
Some are not even PH as some owners of posh sports cars and 4 x4s have used a loop hole to avoid paying the congestion charge by registering them as PH to get around it.
The PH requirement down there needs addressing perhaps a colour code??
They could start with trying to educate the public as to what mini cabs should look like and what to look for on the vehicle and to check the drivers ID out before they enter


I'm not suggesting that things don't need addressing I'm just suggesting that you perhaps are a little harsh on their requirements when your's are not that strict especially regarding age limits. Yours are 7 years so why can't their's be 7 years :?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:42 pm 
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Quote:
Yours are 7 years so why can't their's be 7 years


Would they last that long down there given there work rate


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:45 pm 
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skippy41 wrote:
Quote:
Yours are 7 years so why can't their's be 7 years


Would they last that long down there given there work rate


If they're well maintained why not? Anyway my point is you shouldn't want to inflict harsher policies on others that you're not prepared to except from your own LA :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:13 pm 
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But now, advances in sat nav mean that minicab drivers who do not have "the knowledge" can get directions and traffic information simply by pressing a few buttons.



ahhh, the old "satnav will replace the knowledge" argument!! ZZZzzzzzzzz

ill thought out and totally illogical rhetoric from people who have no understanding of an industry!

:roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Satnavs are little use once in the built up area, ive lost signal along marylebone street and also on the underground roundabout by canary wharf, where the exit was......underground...

However, there are navigation systems that use satellites and wheel sensors, they cost more, but work much better, Blaupunkt do one for sure

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:14 pm 
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they still can't decipher half the stuff that foreign nationals throw at you in the taxi.

examples i've posted on other sites or given to passengers when they try and insist my knowledge is out of date:

A passenger i picked up at Paddington asking me to take him to the building next to the statue of a panther or tiger in the City! :?

An Oriental lady asking for shiselotelooston :shock:

Those are just 2 examples of how useless a satnav would be. Also what many forget to point out is that a PH driver will be given his destination address prior to picking up so has time to check the route, location of address etc. As any taxi driver knows, we pick people up in an instant and have to know pretty much in which direction to go for. Being on Piccadilly is a prime example:

Pick someone up on the corner of Albermarle or Dover St and they ask to go to Old Quebec St. Do you go down Piccadilly typing into your satnav to locate Old Quebec St or do you turn left into one of the streets i mentioned and then try and suss out where your going ? You could be going the wrong way now, equally you could be stuck in Piccadilly in a heck of traffic with time to type into your satnav but the passenger getting irate because he's now going to be late for his meeting!

I really don't buy into the satnav argument, i've tried them in town and they are hopeless for the type of work i do. Do i type in Marjorie St or Margery St ? Do i know there are different roads with similar sounding names; indeed can a person whos first language isn't English even discern the difference between Eton and Eaton ?

Nope, sorry to say Evening Standard readers and BBC viewers but love us or hate us the London taxi and the World famous Knowledge is here to stay.............London would be a far poorer place without it!

:wink:


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