According to one of our less read papers, Alan Fleming (The OAP) former LCDC Chairman, saved the Birmingham lads necks from satellite PH offices and an age limit on their taxis in a presentation to their licensing board.
London saves the day again.
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| Alan Fleming saves Birmingham http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12823 |
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| Author: | GBC [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Alan Fleming saves Birmingham |
According to one of our less read papers, Alan Fleming (The OAP) former LCDC Chairman, saved the Birmingham lads necks from satellite PH offices and an age limit on their taxis in a presentation to their licensing board. London saves the day again.
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| Author: | GBC [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:31 am ] |
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http://www.taxiglobe.info/pdf/TG621_p4.pdf Alan writes: Back at the beginning of September, I was asked by the taxi trade association in Birmingham to represent them at a council meeting. This was because the taxi and PHV licensing office wanted to licence a PHV sub office in a nightclub. My old friend Ron Pearson also came along to the meeting to speak against this proposal. He pointed out to the council that this would proliferate the problem of illegal plying for hire at this venue. The licensing officers seemed as though they supported the idea of licensing sub offices. The probable reason for this is because they would have liked to have made this a springboard to spread all over Birmingham. Further they would be able to issue a yearly licence at a cost of over £1000, so this proposal was all about raising revenue. However, Ron Pearson put forward a very good case supported with my own report of what was happening here in London. The council then took a vote and the proposal was scrapped, with a victory for the Taxi Trade. 
The next issue on the agenda was putting an age limit on cabs - again this was supported by the licensing office. Now this was a surprise to me as I was not aware that this was up for discussion. Once more Ron Pearson put up a very good argument but it seemed as though it was not going his way. Some of the councillors were being very critical about trivial things that they felt should have been on the cab. The biggest criticism was that some people had complained that certain types of wheelchairs could not get through the doors of the cab. It was pointed out to them that this was due to the fact that wheelchairs in the main cause no problem, but some are designed in such a way that it was impossible for them to fit into a cab. The argument went back and forth and I asked the chairman if I could speak on the issue, and he agreed. There were some shocked faces on the council and the licensing officers when they heard what I had to say. That was that it is unlawful to place an age limit on a vehicle. A frosty faced lady councillor then spoke up and asked me since when has this been unlawful. I replied since the House of Lords decided this back in the early eighties. The judgement was that so long as a vehicle complied with that vehicle’s construction and use regulations, and was safe and fit for the road, then an age limit could not be enforced. The frosty faced lady councillor then said the following. “That may be so but that only applied to ordinary vehicles, we are discussing hackney carriages.” It was at this point that I dropped the bombshell. 
I told them that the case decided on by the Lords was a London taxi. A vote was taken by the council and the proposal was defeated another victory for the Taxi Trade. |
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| Author: | Stationtone [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:23 am ] |
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Well done Alan Fleming and Ron pearson for putting a stop to the sub office and for making that lady councilor look very silly. 
I wonder if you have a copy of the report that they presented to the committee. |
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| Author: | captain cab [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:59 am ] |
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Pmsl can't wait till brummie gets back to tell the real story |
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| Author: | taxitone [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:55 pm ] |
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so are they saying an age limit cannot lawfully be put on a hackney carriage if its a london style taxi, because our LA put a service life of 10 years on them |
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| Author: | DPR [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:31 pm ] |
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Thanks for this....very interesting. I wonder how many LO impose this age rule on this style of vehicle, i know my area does. Can anyone direct me to the piece of legislation or debate where this was ruled? |
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| Author: | captain cab [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:36 pm ] |
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DPR wrote: Thanks for this....very interesting. I wonder how many LO impose this age rule on this style of vehicle, i know my area does.
Can anyone direct me to the piece of legislation or debate where this was ruled? I personally think its whats known as pulling the wool.......but if I'm wrong I'll take my baseball cap off to the dude.
CC |
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| Author: | GBC [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:50 pm ] |
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DPR wrote: Thanks for this....very interesting. I wonder how many LO impose this age rule on this style of vehicle, i know my area does.
Can anyone direct me to the piece of legislation or debate where this was ruled? I don't know, but despite my pizz taking with the 'OAP' bit (he looks twice his age!) Alan is the man when it comes to London Taxi legislation, he's very good. I believe he is contactable through, and this pains me to mention their name, the RMT taxi branch as he seems to offer them legal advice. Try Googling him as he used to avertise his services in some of the trade papers. |
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| Author: | captain cab [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:08 pm ] |
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I dont want to disagree GBC.....but your cabs are governed by the COF. These were reviewed in 2002/03, before that it was 1961. In between you've had various PCO doctrines / notices about emissions, the thing is about emissions, they get rid of the older cabs. It does make me laugh saying there's no age limit, when saying a vehicle is say euro 4 compliant gets rid of all cabs over the age of 4 or 5
So there's no age limit in London......but there's emissions standards.....you can have a cab as old as you want, provided its wheelchair accessible (which makes it post date 1989) and euro 3 or 4.....euro 3 gets rid of vehicles licensed before 2000 and euro 4 gets rid of anything licensed before 2005. As I said.....wool pulled. CC |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:10 pm ] |
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taxitone wrote: so are they saying an age limit cannot lawfully be put on a hackney carriage if its a london style taxi, because our LA put a service life of 10 years on them
It would appear so, and it would also appear they are wrong. |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:11 pm ] |
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DPR wrote: Can anyone direct me to the piece of legislation or debate where this was ruled?
Cloud cuckoo land is the only place you will find such legislation. |
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| Author: | GBC [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:11 pm ] |
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I agree, but like the 1990 wheelchair conversions, thousands of taxis (my last one included) were converted to the new Euro 3 emissions standards. This age limit seems to be irrespective of everything elses, 10 years and it's gone, converted or not. So would this ruling then apply? |
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| Author: | captain cab [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:15 pm ] |
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GBC wrote: I agree, but like the 1990 wheelchair conversions, thousands of taxis (my last one included) were converted to the new Euro 3 emissions standards.
This age limit seems to be irrespective of everything elses, 10 years and it's gone, converted or not. So would this ruling then apply? Considering the amount of litigation over the years around age limits I'm very surprised nobody else has heard of it. I'd like to think it exists, but I dont think it does and I would like to see it. Whats your current emission standard? Some places in the provinces are looking at euro 4.....so London is bound to be thinking along the same lines. CC |
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| Author: | GBC [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:20 pm ] |
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Euro 3. I think this is why Boris is rattling on about age limits for London, he doesn't want to impose a further balls up with enforced Euro 4. The last lot of coversion kits were too expensive. |
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| Author: | captain cab [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:21 pm ] |
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GBC wrote: Euro 3.
I think this is why Boris is rattling on about age limits for London, he doesn't want to impose a further balls up with enforced Euro 4. The last lot of coversion kits were too expensive. I think if he rattles on for long enough euro 4 wont be too bad an option. CC |
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