captain cab wrote:
I also think the actual plate owner will not lose......the LA has obviously created a legitimate expectation.....
Indeed, a legitimate expectation that they'll continue to shaft drivers
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| York taxi drivers split over ownership and renting of plates http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14383 |
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| Author: | Brummie Cabbie [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | York taxi drivers split over ownership and renting of plates |
York taxi drivers split over ownership and renting of hackney licence plates 9:40am Wednesday 30th June 2010 A group of taxi drivers has broken ranks with fellow cabbies in a landmark dispute that could cost dozens of people tens of thousands of pounds in investments. A bitter row has erupted among cabbies in York over the ownership and renting of hackney plates – vehicle licences which are required for any vehicle plying for hire. The number of plates is capped by City of York Council at 177 and there is a long waiting list, meaning a lucrative market has developed in which plate-holders sell them on for as much as £60,000 or hire them out to other drivers. Previous moves to remove the cap on plate numbers prompted an angry backlash from some drivers who had paid large sums for them and who feared their investments would become worthless overnight. A meeting will now be held at the city’s Guildhall on Friday, in an attempt to settle the matter. The Press understands one of the four breakaway drivers, who rents a plate from its registered licensee, will argue that he is its rightful owner. If he wins his case, the existing complex rules around plate ownership could be overhauled, potentially leaving some licensees hugely out of pocket. The latest debate has divided the trade and when contacted by The Press, the vast majority of drivers were unwilling to go on the record. One who did speak, York Hackney Carriage Association secretary Stuart Robertson, said: “The general feeling is against the attempt by these drivers to claim these plates.” Another York driver, who wished to remain anonymous, said the four drivers were being snubbed by some fellow cabbies. “Most drivers think it’s out of hand to claim these plates,” he said. “But others think that over the years they have paid thousands to the owners, so they have a right to claim them. “Some taxi drivers are worried the council might look at de-regulation which would be terrible for the city.” Coun Ian Gillies, who will chair Friday’s meeting of the council’s licensing and regulatory committee, said: “This is very important – it will be a test case. “Regulations say the plate goes with the vehicle and there is confusion over who owns them. It’s a free market once they have been issued.” Grey area over plate ownership According to council rules, plates must be physically attached to a car belonging to the registered plate owner. Selling a plate on is permitted, but confusion arises when a plate-holder rents it out to a driver who puts the plate on his or her own car. Drivers have got round this before by transferring the vehicle to the plate owner, and producing a bill of sale, but the breakaway drivers are arguing that they are the rightful plate owner. The row has sparked debate on the drivers’ website taxi-driver.co.uk. One driver said York was now rare in allowing drivers to rent plates from registered plate-holders. Source; yorkpress.co.uk |
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| Author: | captain cab [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hardly any confusion here, IMO....as said before the law has been established for a long period of time. I also think the actual plate owner will not lose......the LA has obviously created a legitimate expectation.....irrespective of the rights and wrongs. CC |
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| Author: | Caledonian Cabbie [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:51 pm ] |
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captain cab wrote: I also think the actual plate owner will not lose......the LA has obviously created a legitimate expectation.....
Indeed, a legitimate expectation that they'll continue to shaft drivers
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| Author: | captain cab [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:52 pm ] |
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Caledonian Cabbie wrote: captain cab wrote: I also think the actual plate owner will not lose......the LA has obviously created a legitimate expectation..... Indeed, a legitimate expectation that they'll continue to shaft drivers And a legitimate expectation that you'll hijack all threads? dumbo CC |
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| Author: | Caledonian Cabbie [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:55 pm ] |
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captain cab wrote: And a legitimate expectation that you'll hijack all threads?
dumbo CC Oh, so if you post in lots of threads and I post in less threads that means I've hijacked them? A bit like your approach to running a taxi - double standards 
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| Author: | captain cab [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:56 pm ] |
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Caledonian Cabbie wrote: captain cab wrote: And a legitimate expectation that you'll hijack all threads? dumbo CC Oh, so if you post in lots of threads and I post in less threads that means I've hijacked them? A bit like your approach to running a taxi - double standards Ive got a stalker ffs I'm sorry, I'm hetrosexual and I dont go in for those kind of things.......but good luck, I hope you meet the right whoop one day 
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| Author: | Chopsy [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:19 pm ] |
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[quote="captain cab"]Hardly any confusion here, IMO....as said before the law has been established for a long period of time. I also think the actual plate owner will not lose......the LA has obviously created a legitimate expectation.....irrespective of the rights and wrongs. CC[/quote] Sorry to come out of lurkdom and jump into this convo but your comment raised an issue for me. I've been doing a little research surrounding this issue and a few of the articles I found specifically deal with the subject of 'expectations'. Doesn't Challoner V Evans deal with the issue of expectations vs rights - ie that the license holder may have a reasonable expectation but that does not equate to a right? And that the license remains at all times the property of the council so any sense of 'ownership' is false? I am not disagreeing with you per se, just checking that I understood the judgement correctly. As I have come out of lurkdom to post, I will take the opportunity to thank you guys here for the wealth of info you have gathered. My hubby and I use this forum for reference frequently so thanks again 
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| Author: | captain cab [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:24 pm ] |
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Chopsy wrote: captain cab wrote: Hardly any confusion here, IMO....as said before the law has been established for a long period of time. I also think the actual plate owner will not lose......the LA has obviously created a legitimate expectation.....irrespective of the rights and wrongs. CC Sorry to come out of lurkdom and jump into this convo but your comment raised an issue for me. I've been doing a little research surrounding this issue and a few of the articles I found specifically deal with the subject of 'expectations'. Doesn't Challoner V Evans deal with the issue of expectations vs rights - ie that the license holder may have a reasonable expectation but that does not equate to a right? And that the license remains at all times the property of the council so any sense of 'ownership' is false? I am not disagreeing with you per se, just checking that I understood the judgement correctly. As I have come out of lurkdom to post, I will take the opportunity to thank you guys here for the wealth of info you have gathered. My hubby and I use this forum for reference frequently so thanks again Welcome out of lurkdom and into the light, I hope you have a crash helmet. IMO legitimate expectation works numerous ways......in this case I would expect a resolution that would perhaps not suit, but benefit all parties. IMO also the person renting a plate without vehicle doesnt actually deserve a plate. CC |
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| Author: | Hypnotist [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
York Hackney Carriage Association secretary Stuart Robertson, said: “The general feeling is against the attempt by these drivers to claim these plates.” The Station Junta that has kicked out drivers for obeying the council rules,we shall see when York station has an open to all policy like Watford who the station mafia will keep out then
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| Author: | Brummie Cabbie [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:39 pm ] |
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captain cab wrote: Chopsy wrote: captain cab wrote: Hardly any confusion here, IMO....as said before the law has been established for a long period of time. I also think the actual plate owner will not lose......the LA has obviously created a legitimate expectation.....irrespective of the rights and wrongs. CC Sorry to come out of lurkdom and jump into this convo but your comment raised an issue for me. I've been doing a little research surrounding this issue and a few of the articles I found specifically deal with the subject of 'expectations'. Doesn't Challoner V Evans deal with the issue of expectations vs rights - ie that the license holder may have a reasonable expectation but that does not equate to a right? And that the license remains at all times the property of the council so any sense of 'ownership' is false? I am not disagreeing with you per se, just checking that I understood the judgement correctly. As I have come out of lurkdom to post, I will take the opportunity to thank you guys here for the wealth of info you have gathered. My hubby and I use this forum for reference frequently so thanks again Welcome out of lurkdom and into the light, I hope you have a crash helmet. IMO legitimate expectation works numerous ways......in this case I would expect a resolution that would perhaps not suit, but benefit all parties. IMO also the person renting a plate without vehicle doesnt actually deserve a plate. CC And about 10-15 years ago when one multi-owner in Brum was found to have 19 plates in his office draw instead of on cabs, seven of them were revoked & the other 12 had to be put on cabs within 28 days. Serves him right. And that's what should happen to these owners that are renting their plates out. Well illegal IMO. |
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| Author: | toots [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:38 pm ] |
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Quote: And about 10-15 years ago when one multi-owner in Brum was found to have 19 plates in his office draw instead of on cabs, seven of them were revoked & the other 12 had to be put on cabs within 28 days.
Serves him right. And that's what should happen to these owners that are renting their plates out. Well illegal IMO. I do believe that there are people who have Wirral plates in the drawer and nobody seems bothered 
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| Author: | Brummie Cabbie [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:45 pm ] |
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toots wrote: Quote: And about 10-15 years ago when one multi-owner in Brum was found to have 19 plates in his office draw instead of on cabs, seven of them were revoked & the other 12 had to be put on cabs within 28 days. Serves him right. And that's what should happen to these owners that are renting their plates out. Well illegal IMO. I do believe that there are people who have Wirral plates in the drawer and nobody seems bothered IMO, that's well wrong!! If a HCVL is issued, it is issued to be on a vehicle, so that vehicle can provide a service to the public. |
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| Author: | MR T [ Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
without really knowing all the details... one can only guess.... if the council has allowed licences belonging to one person to be issued to a vehicle owned by another... then they are clearly in the wrong....But... if the owner of the vehicle has produced a bill of sale stating that the vehicle is now the property of the person owning the licence than the council has clearly been lied to... and then the vehicle owner might well be prosecuted.... interesting.... But without the true facts... just guesswork |
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| Author: | happy cabs [ Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:28 am ] |
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Hypnotist wrote: York Hackney Carriage Association secretary Stuart Robertson, said: “The general feeling is against the attempt by these drivers to claim these plates.”
The Station Junta that has kicked out drivers for obeying the council rules,we shall see when York station has an open to all policy like Watford who the station mafia will keep out then Nice to see you're still around Richard |
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| Author: | Ears1096 [ Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:51 am ] |
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http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/1536130 ... ion_moves/ I'll post this here as well then as Mr Jackson wants to de regulate |
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