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Manchester Council to Seal PH meter's
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Author:  tom2907 [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Manchester Council to Seal PH meter's
A driver in Manchester has threatened Manchester City council with The Local Government Ombudsman over the council's error in not testing or sealing any PH meter's in the City over the last 33 years. It seems none of the trade representatives or the Council official's had read the LG(MP)A 1976.
Imagine how many offences have been committed over the years. It came to light after a driver got into a private hire car which had a piece of insulation tape concealing the face of the meter where the tariff selected was displayed.
The council have apologized and are consulting how best to remedy this.
Author:  Sussex [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hmmm. :-k

71 Taximeters
(1) Nothing in this Act shall require any private hire vehicle to be equipped with any form of taximeter but no private hire vehicle so equipped shall be used for hire in a controlled district unless such taximeter has been tested and approved by or on behalf of the district council for the district or any other district council by which a vehicle licence in force for the vehicle was issued.

(2) Any person who —
(a) tampers with any seal on any taximeter without lawful excuse; or
(b) alters any taximeter with intent to mislead; or
(c) knowingly causes or permits a vehicle of which he is the proprietor to be used in contravention of subsection (1) of this section. shall be guilty of an offence.

We have had this discussion on here a few times, some years ago, and my view is that this section says meters in PH must be approved by a licensing district, not sealed.
Author:  toots [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
had a piece of insulation tape concealing the face of the meter where the tariff selected was displayed.


Would this not be considered altering with the intent to mislead?
Author:  captain cab [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:
Quote:
had a piece of insulation tape concealing the face of the meter where the tariff selected was displayed.


Would this not be considered altering with the intent to mislead?


Yes it would, however, as there is no actual provision for PH to have meters, then all a PH has to do is remove the meter when tested?

Its an interesting argument though, PH fares are supposed to be agreed beforehand arent they?

If thats the case, of what use is a taximeter?

CC
Author:  toots [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain cab wrote:
toots wrote:
Quote:
had a piece of insulation tape concealing the face of the meter where the tariff selected was displayed.


Would this not be considered altering with the intent to mislead?


Yes it would, however, as there is no actual provision for PH to have meters, then all a PH has to do is remove the meter when tested?

Its an interesting argument though, PH fares are supposed to be agreed beforehand arent they?

If thats the case, of what use is a taximeter?

CC


Agreed with whom?
Author:  captain cab [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:

Agreed with whom?


The Operator.

CC
Author:  toots [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain cab wrote:
toots wrote:

Agreed with whom?


The Operator.

CC


The operator provides a tariff per mile or part thereof same as a HC just different rates
Author:  captain cab [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:
captain cab wrote:
toots wrote:

Agreed with whom?


The Operator.

CC


The operator provides a tariff per mile or part thereof same as a HC just different rates


Yes.......but his fares cannot be regulated.

CC
Author:  toots [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain cab wrote:
toots wrote:
captain cab wrote:
toots wrote:

Agreed with whom?


The Operator.

CC


The operator provides a tariff per mile or part thereof same as a HC just different rates


Yes.......but his fares cannot be regulated.

CC


I understand what you getting at, but, you seem to be thinking along the lines of one man bands or very small companies. Whilst the fare isn't regulated as such the larger companies wouldn't like it if you try to rip off the customers on a regular basis, you'd be out the door. It's obviously not good for business
Author:  Chris the Fish [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Now this is interesting, the 1975 Act in Plmouth says:

29.—(1) As from the appointed day, no private hire vehicle equipped with any form of taximeter shall be used for hire in the city unless such taximeter has been tested and approved by or on behalf of the Council.
(2) Any person who without lawful excuse—
(a) tampers with any seal on any taximeter; or
(b) alters any taximeter with intent to mislead;
shall be guilty of an offence.

The wording is so similar as to be considered the same I believe. An ambiguity that jumps out at me though is, does each INDIVIDUAL meter in PH require testing (as I believe in Plymouth it does) or just a single one of each "Make".

Further it is unclear from the wording if once "tested and approved" the Council should "Seal" the meter.

I appreciate that you my Peers have previously discussed all this previously but it is new to me, has the provision in the 1976 Act (71) or the 1975 Act (29) ever been tested by a Court or an Ombudsman? Is there a possibility that Manchester may prove a testing ground on the issue?
Author:  captain cab [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:

I understand what you getting at, but, you seem to be thinking along the lines of one man bands or very small companies. Whilst the fare isn't regulated as such the larger companies wouldn't like it if you try to rip off the customers on a regular basis, you'd be out the door. It's obviously not good for business


Lets put it this way then.

You dont use a meter.....how do you calculate waiting time?

If a PH Op gives a quote on each job.....like arguably he should (or she should just for those lesbians out there)........and the job goes to a PH with a meter that charges waiting time.....and theres traffic.

Whats the PH driver supposed to do?

(for those who think I'm going soft I refer to PH in the same way I refer to farmers spreading cowshite for no reason at all).

CC
Author:  toots [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain cab wrote:
toots wrote:

I understand what you getting at, but, you seem to be thinking along the lines of one man bands or very small companies. Whilst the fare isn't regulated as such the larger companies wouldn't like it if you try to rip off the customers on a regular basis, you'd be out the door. It's obviously not good for business


Lets put it this way then.

You dont use a meter.....how do you calculate waiting time?

If a PH Op gives a quote on each job.....like arguably he should (or she should just for those lesbians out there)........and the job goes to a PH with a meter that charges waiting time.....and theres traffic.

Whats the PH driver supposed to do?

(for those who think I'm going soft I refer to PH in the same way I refer to farmers spreading cowshite for no reason at all).

CC


Where does it say that a PH Op should give a price on each job :? We don't charge for waiting in traffic as such which is why we are cheaper than HC's. We do however charge for waiting time if, for example, the bridge is up and the customer chooses to wait rather than go the other way, and that's at 20p per min.

We do have some vehicles with meters that are set to clock up time in traffic and it does cause problems especially with the regular customers, but, the drivers usually just use the trip meter and the tariff card in these cases. We have the same problem with HC's that use their meters to over charge customers on our system
Author:  Chris the Fish [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have often thought that PH do something that no other business ever does.
There is no Tariff or price guide.
Go into a Restaurant, prices are on the menu.
Go into a Pub (now a rarity the Pub in "Ye Olde Englande" was a community watering hole and a centre of community life - effectively killed off by **** anti Smoking laws and cheap booze in Supermarkets.) and the prices must be displayed.
Go into a shop and items are price labled.
Get into a PH and until the journey is done you have no idea what it will cost.
To be fair the only other place that this happens is when you take a "Whining Skoda" to the garage.
Author:  toots [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Get into a PH and until the journey is done you have no idea what it will cost.


We have to display our tariff card so the customer can see it so they know how much it is by the mile or part thereof. I've many a time been in a HC and watched as the meter clicks over, but, until I get to where I want to go I won't know how much it is going to cost. Sometimes when I've used HC the vehicle has stopped with a price on the meter and then the driver presses a button and suddenly the price is higher and that's what I have to pay. I'd like to know what that button is, if anybody knows?
Author:  captain cab [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:

Where does it say that a PH Op should give a price on each job :? We don't charge for waiting in traffic as such which is why we are cheaper than HC's. We do however charge for waiting time if, for example, the bridge is up and the customer chooses to wait rather than go the other way, and that's at 20p per min.

We do have some vehicles with meters that are set to clock up time in traffic and it does cause problems especially with the regular customers, but, the drivers usually just use the trip meter and the tariff card in these cases. We have the same problem with HC's that use their meters to over charge customers on our system


The contract a PH customer has is with the PH Operator.

CC
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