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You make a good arguement if only you hadn't used http://mirror.wikileaks.info/ as an example.

Unions.... with all their financial resources.. have placed many councils in court.... and sometimes they have even won... and then the council look at what they have done wrong...... legally..... and then legally move the goalposts.. so that next time they win. only stupid people take councils to court... because they do not have the brains or ability to work within the political system.... at no cost.... fighting one battle in court and losing the war is not a success.... :mrgreen:

MR T wrote:

“work within the political system” you are having a laugh, just like you and the great Uncle Tom Casey, I suppose. :roll:

MR T wrote:

“work within the political system” you are having a laugh, just like you and the great Uncle Tom Casey, I suppose. :roll:

Direct action or legal action can all be organised through the internet you don't need a union or a committee full of Uncle Tom's. Your time has passed. The internet is everyone, change is here, it all depends on the individual waking up to its power and using it collectively, without waiting for a committee decision.

You and CC are not the solution Trevor. You are the problem.

:-|

TDO has the facilities to debate, vote, donate through Paypal and inform its members. The whole structure of the democratic process is at our fingertips without the need for committeemen (Uncle Tom's) or politicians.

You wouldn't need everyone to agree on a particular subject, but you could vote and donate to the particular cause you believed in.

The point is, TDO could be a real force for change within the trade.

For instance, if you wanted to stop Council's abusing taxi driver rights, we could all vote on it and donate to a fighting fund to take it to Judicial Review. It would be up to every taxi driver that believed in making change happen to involve their colleagues to provide the funding as everyone would benefit. You would simply collect their cash or get them to donate directly through the website. Depending on how many people got involved the individual cost to each person could be buttons.

If you want to force through change that has real benefits, it's about putting your money where your mouth is.

:-|

Skull wrote:

Why donate to your fund when you've fleeced £50K from a driver for a free plate which "you" got for free. Use that money Gary.

Skull wrote:

MR T wrote:

“work within the political system” you are having a laugh, just like you and the great Uncle Tom Casey, I suppose. :roll:

I personally think that you have a very important part to play.... when people listen or read what you have to say..... it makes them realise how sane every body else is....... :oops:

MR T wrote:

Skull wrote:

MR T wrote:

“work within the political system” you are having a laugh, just like you and the great Uncle Tom Casey, I suppose. :roll:

I personally think that you have a very important part to play.... when people listen or read what you have to say..... it makes them realise how sane every body else is....... :oops:

What's wrong Trevor, unless a representation comes in the form of the great Trevor Jones or Wayne (Uncle Tom) Casey, it wouldn't work? Tell that to those in Tunisia or Eygpt. Social networks like Facebook and twitter are changing the world and the way we live our lives. If people now want change it can happen overnight. It's no longer a question of how but when, all it takes is a consensus of opinion and the will to take direct action. If that need for change goes viral it can sweep the world faster than any infectious disease, the rest is history.

Where have you been Trevor, living in a bubble perhaps?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Revolution

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=48769619891

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2228594104

Author:	Skull [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:	TDO's Skull Fund
TDO has the facilities to debate, vote, donate through Paypal and inform its members. The whole structure of the democratic process is at our fingertips without the need for committeemen (Uncle Tom's) or politicians. You wouldn't need everyone to agree on a particular subject, but you could vote and donate to the particular cause you believed in. The point is, TDO could be a real force for change within the trade. For instance, if you wanted to stop Council's abusing taxi driver rights, we could all vote on it and donate to a fighting fund to take it to Judicial Review. It would be up to every taxi driver that believed in making change happen to involve their colleagues to provide the funding as everyone would benefit. You would simply collect their cash or get them to donate directly through the website. Depending on how many people got involved the individual cost to each person could be buttons. If you want to force through change that has real benefits, it's about putting your money where your mouth is.

Author:	Skull [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:
As I have said before, the internet is bringing a bottom up accountability to top down authoritarian power structures. Think about Wikileaks http://mirror.wikileaks.info/ and the Arab revolt, but in this country all you need is access to the courts to make your council accountable. I'm not even sure we need a council, or a bunch of councillors for that matter, perhaps all we need is access to the internet, the information to make an informed decision, the argument for or against, and the facility to vote. The executive would then carry out our wishes' subject to the laws of the land. It's a thought.

Author:	Skull [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:08 am ]
Post subject:
We've all been on this forum at one time or another bemoaning the actions of council's, councillors our own colleagues and so called trade representatives. The fact is, nothing really changes because we always think that others should represent our interests but not their own. Human nature tells a different story. Perhaps the opportunity to affect change is now within our grasp, no middle men, simply a debate, a vote and the will to fund whatever changes we want. You have two choices to force change in a capitalist democracy. Either through the right of direct action, by withdrawing your services or taking to the streets in protest, or creating a war chest to drag your opponent through the courts where the sheer expense of legal action is often enough to bring your opponent to their knees.

Author:	toots [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:03 am ]
Post subject:
You make a good arguement if only you hadn't used http://mirror.wikileaks.info/ as an example.

Author:	MR T [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:17 am ]
Post subject:
Unions.... with all their financial resources.. have placed many councils in court.... and sometimes they have even won... and then the council look at what they have done wrong...... legally..... and then legally move the goalposts.. so that next time they win. only stupid people take councils to court... because they do not have the brains or ability to work within the political system.... at no cost.... fighting one battle in court and losing the war is not a success....

Taxi Driver Online http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/

TDO's Skull Fund http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16558	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Skull [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:47 am ]
Post subject:
toots wrote: You make a good arguement if only you hadn't used http://mirror.wikileaks.info/ as an example. Try not to reduce the argument down to a particular like or dislike. This is about the power of the internet and what could be achieved if TDO was used as a mechanism to force through change within the taxi trade. You might not get what you wanted on every occasion, that's democracy, but it would be truly representative. The power to control your own trade and to shape its future would be down to you and the many thousands of Taxi drivers throughout the entire country. There would be no one to blame and no excuses.

Author:	toots [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:51 am ]
Post subject:
MR T wrote: Unions.... with all their financial resources.. have placed many councils in court.... and sometimes they have even won... and then the council look at what they have done wrong...... legally..... and then legally move the goalposts.. so that next time they win. only stupid people take councils to court... because they do not have the brains or ability to work within the political system.... at no cost.... fighting one battle in court and losing the war is not a success.... I have to say the first time you said something like that to me I was a little confused but now I understand why you think the way you do. I like the way you think

Author:	Skull [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:28 am ]
Post subject:
MR T wrote: Unions.... with all their financial resources.. have placed many councils in court.... and sometimes they have even won... and then the council look at what they have done wrong...... legally..... and then legally move the goalposts.. so that next time they win. only stupid people take councils to court... because they do not have the brains or ability to work within the political system.... at no cost.... fighting one battle in court and losing the war is not a success.... “work within the political system” you are having a laugh, just like you and the great Uncle Tom Casey, I suppose. Direct action or legal action can all be organised through the internet you don't need a union or a committee full of Uncle Tom's. Your time has passed. The internet is everyone, change is here, it all depends on the individual waking up to its power and using it collectively, without waiting for a committee decision. You and CC are not the solution Trevor. You are the problem.

Author:	Jasbar [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:32 am ]
Post subject:
Skull wrote: MR T wrote: Unions.... with all their financial resources.. have placed many councils in court.... and sometimes they have even won... and then the council look at what they have done wrong...... legally..... and then legally move the goalposts.. so that next time they win. only stupid people take councils to court... because they do not have the brains or ability to work within the political system.... at no cost.... fighting one battle in court and losing the war is not a success.... “work within the political system” you are having a laugh, just like you and the great Uncle Tom Casey, I suppose. Direct action or legal action can all be organised through the internet you don't need a union or a committee full of Uncle Tom's. Your time has passed. The internet is everyone, change is here, it all depends on the individual waking up to its power and using it. I'd go as far as to say that Unions(which are an anachronism when they support employer interests as they are doing in Dundee), NTAs, STFs, Company drivers committees etc are the very instruments which are holding back real progress within our trade. BTW Nice one Toots.

Author:	Skull [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:36 am ]
Post subject:
The Arab spring would have never happened if guys like Trevor and CC had anything to do with it. They would still be "working within the system"

Author:	MR T [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:00 am ]
Post subject:
Skull wrote: MR T wrote: Unions.... with all their financial resources.. have placed many councils in court.... and sometimes they have even won... and then the council look at what they have done wrong...... legally..... and then legally move the goalposts.. so that next time they win. only stupid people take councils to court... because they do not have the brains or ability to work within the political system.... at no cost.... fighting one battle in court and losing the war is not a success.... “work within the political system” you are having a laugh, just like you and the great Uncle Tom Casey, I suppose. Direct action or legal action can all be organised through the internet you don't need a union or a committee full of Uncle Tom's. Your time has passed. The internet is everyone, change is here, it all depends on the individual waking up to its power and using it collectively, without waiting for a committee decision. You and CC are not the solution Trevor. You are the problem. I personally think that you have a very important part to play.... when people listen or read what you have to say..... it makes them realise how sane every body else is.......

Author:	Nidge [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TDO's Skull Fund
Skull wrote: TDO has the facilities to debate, vote, donate through Paypal and inform its members. The whole structure of the democratic process is at our fingertips without the need for committeemen (Uncle Tom's) or politicians. You wouldn't need everyone to agree on a particular subject, but you could vote and donate to the particular cause you believed in. The point is, TDO could be a real force for change within the trade. For instance, if you wanted to stop Council's abusing taxi driver rights, we could all vote on it and donate to a fighting fund to take it to Judicial Review. It would be up to every taxi driver that believed in making change happen to involve their colleagues to provide the funding as everyone would benefit. You would simply collect their cash or get them to donate directly through the website. Depending on how many people got involved the individual cost to each person could be buttons. If you want to force through change that has real benefits, it's about putting your money where your mouth is. Why donate to your fund when you've fleeced £50K from a driver for a free plate which "you" got for free. Use that money Gary.

Author:	Skull [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TDO's Skull Fund
Midlander wrote: Skull wrote: TDO has the facilities to debate, vote, donate through Paypal and inform its members. The whole structure of the democratic process is at our fingertips without the need for committeemen (Uncle Tom's) or politicians. You wouldn't need everyone to agree on a particular subject, but you could vote and donate to the particular cause you believed in. The point is, TDO could be a real force for change within the trade. For instance, if you wanted to stop Council's abusing taxi driver rights, we could all vote on it and donate to a fighting fund to take it to Judicial Review. It would be up to every taxi driver that believed in making change happen to involve their colleagues to provide the funding as everyone would benefit. You would simply collect their cash or get them to donate directly through the website. Depending on how many people got involved the individual cost to each person could be buttons. If you want to force through change that has real benefits, it's about putting your money where your mouth is. Why donate to your fund when you've fleeced £50K from a driver for a free plate which "you" got for free. Use that money Gary. It wouldn't be my fund you clown and that's the point. For instance, if you wanted to stop Council's abusing taxi driver rights, we could all vote on it and donate to a fighting fund to take it to Judicial Review. I was using the TDO's Skull Fund thread as an example. I'm not looking for your support although it was a nice gesture from those who can see the bigger picture. Btw, I sold my plate 10 years ago, and it was a different world back then. Are you really that stupid or is it just an Act?

Author:	Skull [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:
MR T wrote: Skull wrote: MR T wrote: Unions.... with all their financial resources.. have placed many councils in court.... and sometimes they have even won... and then the council look at what they have done wrong...... legally..... and then legally move the goalposts.. so that next time they win. only stupid people take councils to court... because they do not have the brains or ability to work within the political system.... at no cost.... fighting one battle in court and losing the war is not a success.... “work within the political system” you are having a laugh, just like you and the great Uncle Tom Casey, I suppose. Direct action or legal action can all be organised through the internet you don't need a union or a committee full of Uncle Tom's. Your time has passed. The internet is everyone, change is here, it all depends on the individual waking up to its power and using it collectively, without waiting for a committee decision. You and CC are not the solution Trevor. You are the problem. I personally think that you have a very important part to play.... when people listen or read what you have to say..... it makes them realise how sane every body else is....... What's wrong Trevor, unless a representation comes in the form of the great Trevor Jones or Wayne (Uncle Tom) Casey, it wouldn't work? Tell that to those in Tunisia or Eygpt. Social networks like Facebook and twitter are changing the world and the way we live our lives. If people now want change it can happen overnight. It's no longer a question of how but when, all it takes is a consensus of opinion and the will to take direct action. If that need for change goes viral it can sweep the world faster than any infectious disease, the rest is history. Where have you been Trevor, living in a bubble perhaps? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Revolution http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=48769619891 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2228594104

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Author:	MR T [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Skull wrote: MR T wrote: Skull wrote: MR T wrote: Unions.... with all their financial resources.. have placed many councils in court.... and sometimes they have even won... and then the council look at what they have done wrong...... legally..... and then legally move the goalposts.. so that next time they win. only stupid people take councils to court... because they do not have the brains or ability to work within the political system.... at no cost.... fighting one battle in court and losing the war is not a success.... “work within the political system” you are having a laugh, just like you and the great Uncle Tom Casey, I suppose. Direct action or legal action can all be organised through the internet you don't need a union or a committee full of Uncle Tom's. Your time has passed. The internet is everyone, change is here, it all depends on the individual waking up to its power and using it collectively, without waiting for a committee decision. You and CC are not the solution Trevor. You are the problem. I personally think that you have a very important part to play.... when people listen or read what you have to say..... it makes them realise how sane every body else is....... What's wrong Trevor, unless a representation comes in the form of the great Trevor Jones or Wayne (Uncle Tom) Casey, it wouldn't work? Tell that to those in Tunisia or Eygpt. Social networks like Facebook and twitter are changing the world and the way we live our lives. If people now want change it can happen overnight. It's no longer a question of how but when, all it takes is a consensus of opinion and the will to take direct action. If that need for change goes viral it can sweep the world faster than any infectious disease, the rest is history. Where have you been Trevor, living in a bubble perhaps? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Revolution http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=48769619891 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2228594104 Firstly.... I encourage drivers.. private hire and hackney.. to have representation... the same as I encourage hackney and private hire to meet across the table with the council, so that a consensus of opinions can be heard.... unfortunately drivers always seemed to be too busy to worry about their jobs... sorry.. I have a pool game tonight or the footballs on telly... ... and as for living in a bubble.... I wish I did... unfortunately I simply have to work for a living..... revolutions by the internet... for some people maybe .. But what is it they are trying to achieve..... the standards we already have.... don't try to cloud the issue. the reality is.... that people could not trust you or Jim to act in a reasonable manner regarding any type of funding.....IMO..