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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:40 am 
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The directive, agreed in 1993, is being debated in a 10-year review

A debate on the Working Time Directive is about to start in the European Parliament, with Britain lobbying hard to keep a key opt-out clause.

The directive limits the working week in the EU to an average of 48 hours.

Some MEPs want an end to the current system whereby individuals can opt out if they want to do more hours.

The opt-out is used extensively only in the UK at the moment and the British government is lobbying hard against any changes to the system

Self-employed drivers are excluded from all the requirements until March 2009



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4531747.stm

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/d ... P110_10330


What will be the concequences of the WTD for the taxi industry ?

Will drivers be able to earn enough in 48 hours to cover their ever increasing costs, such as licensing fees, insurance, vehicle upkeep & payments to finance companies for new cars in LA's that have age restrictions

All the best


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:59 am 
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Renfrewshire Driver wrote:
What will be the concequences of the WTD for the taxi industry ?

I look at the positive side of the WTD, whilst fully understanding the reservations some have.

At the momemnt we all work, yes even me, more than 48 hours a week. So in theory if the WTD was introduced we would be worse off. However I don't think we will.

At the end of the day the WTD shouldn't have an effect on the number of customers needing our services. So if drivers have to work less hours, then there should be less drivers working at any given time to service those customers.

So in short, we should be a lot busier when we are working, which could compensate for those hours when we can't work.

The added benefit, if it is enforced properly, is that any part-timers would have to be just that. No more firemen working part-time, as their hours will be used up fighting fires. Ditto for bus drivers, and even bin men and solicitors. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 11:05 am 
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Renfrewshire Driver wrote:

Self-employed drivers are excluded from all the requirements until March 2009
[/i]


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4531747.stm

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/d ... P110_10330


What will be the concequences of the WTD for the taxi industry ?

Will drivers be able to earn enough in 48 hours to cover their ever increasing costs, such as licensing fees, insurance, vehicle upkeep & payments to finance companies for new cars in LA's that have age restrictions

All the best


I was just wondering how cab drivers would be policed if the directive was ever implemented?

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 11:07 am 
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Sussex wrote:
At the end of the day the WTD shouldn't have an effect on the number of customers needing our services. So if drivers have to work less hours, then there should be less drivers working at any given time to service those customers.

So in short, we should be a lot busier when we are working, which could compensate for those hours when we can't work.

The added benefit, if it is enforced properly, is that any part-timers would have to be just that. No more firemen working part-time, as their hours will be used up fighting fires. Ditto for bus drivers, and even bin men and solicitors. :wink:


Good points Mr Sussex


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 11:15 am 
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JD wrote:
I was just wondering how cab drivers would be policed if the directive was ever implemented?

I think they would look to the meter manufactors to work that one out, and maybe have a device that can check via the meters.

For the offices I would imagine it quite easy, espically if they have data systems.

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:21 pm 
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There is one part of the 1847 act that could be used, and as far as I'm aware is still valid. :?

Sec 68 Byelaws for regulating hackney carriages

The commissioners may from time to time (subject to the restrictions of this and the special Act) make byelaws for all or any of the purposes following; (that is to say,)

For regulating the conduct of the proprietors and drivers of hackney carriages plying within the prescribed distance in their several employments, and determining whether such drivers shall wear any and what badges, and for regulating the hours within which they may exercise their calling:

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:57 pm 
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JD wrote:
I was just wondering how cab drivers would be policed if the directive was ever implemented?

For the offices I would imagine it quite easy, especially if they have data systems.


The problem in Scotland would be that the offices are not subjet to any licensing regime as in England & Wales & thus, is suppose, would not have to provide such information

I personally believe that many drivers who run their cars solely for their own use would be forced to shift their vehicles in order to make ends meet, which would remove the freedom most drivers enjoy at the moment of being able to work to their own schedule

Having said that, I can see the point of view that curbing hours worked by drivers may have benefits from a safety point of view, but in the private hire trade drivers can quite regularly sit for 15/20 mins between jobs thus they might work a 12 hour shift but only actually drive for 4 hours

All the best


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 1:49 pm 
im not workinbg 48 hours for noone. :D


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 4:04 pm 
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Location: Plymouth, i think, i'll just check the A to Z!
i must be the lucky one. i read back through my records for this year so far, and i've only done 1 week over 40 hours since new year.


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 6:52 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
At the momemnt we all work, yes even me, more than 48 hours a week.


How long?? Yikes :shock:

I need to lie down even thinking about it. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 9:09 pm 
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If we all cut our hours by the same proportion then we would all take the same money for less hours, so to that extent it's a good thing.

But how will they measure it?

If it's driving hours then, as RD says, it will have very little effect.

If it includes standby time then on a quiet shift a driver might have to bugger off home after 8 hours or so having driven only a couple of hours.

But since in my experience most drivers aren't even know to the taxman, the chance of any meaningful enforcement is pretty remote.

They should get what's there already sorted without adding another layer of bureaucracy that would only benefit the cheats.

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 9:53 pm 
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I honestly can't see how this can be policed in the self employed sector. Sussex suggests the meter could be calibrated to register the hours worked but that idea has several failings. How can a meter determin who is driving a cab if there are two or perhaps three drivers working that cab? So a meter registers how many hours in a day but it can't tell you who was driving and for how many hours. Besides I can't see a council policing the working hours of a Taxi driver.

I think the main point of the directive is to protect workers from being exploited by being forced to work extra hours by demanding employers.

Regards


JD


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 1:39 am 
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Location: Plymouth, i think, i'll just check the A to Z!
JD wrote:
I honestly can't see how this can be policed in the self employed sector. Sussex suggests the meter could be calibrated to register the hours worked but that idea has several failings. How can a meter determin who is driving a cab if there are two or perhaps three drivers working that cab? So a meter registers how many hours in a day but it can't tell you who was driving and for how many hours. Besides I can't see a council policing the working hours of a Taxi driver.

JD


surely if it came to it, you could have 1 meter for each driver. or is that too simple?

my meter sits in a cradle and slides off easily if need be.


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:16 am 
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One day it could be technologically possible to monitor the trade in this way, but at the moment these things are just too easy to get round.

The offices are now using technology to keep a closer eye on drivers, one day I suspect the Govt will do the same.

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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:21 am 
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steveo wrote:
JD wrote:
I honestly can't see how this can be policed in the self employed sector. Sussex suggests the meter could be calibrated to register the hours worked but that idea has several failings. How can a meter determin who is driving a cab if there are two or perhaps three drivers working that cab? So a meter registers how many hours in a day but it can't tell you who was driving and for how many hours. Besides I can't see a council policing the working hours of a Taxi driver.

JD


surely if it came to it, you could have 1 meter for each driver. or is that too simple?


With all due respect Steve I doubt if that idea is practical? I just can't see a council being that concerned about something that doesn't concern them.

Regards

JD


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